Sunday, October 16, 2011

In the news:

This first article from Debka is very interesting and one has to wonder if we are seeing a build-up to war::

Big U.S. airlift starts Monday

The United States launches a large-scale exercise over the Middle East deploying 41 giant transports of the 22nds Airlift Squadron Monday Oct. 17, the day before the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit is scheduled to be released by Hamas.

OK, that certainly tweaks my interest...

The US Transportation Command and its Air Forces Transportation will be testing its ability to provide a rapid strategic airlift response to major crises and contingencies.

Even more interesting. More below:

Tuesday morning, when the Israel and Hamas prisoner exchange is due to be executed, the giant US transports will drill landings in Israel and Saudi Arabia. The aircraft will be packed with command and control elements and fighting units with full equipment.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that during this critical week, the exercise ending Friday, Oct. 21 will keep an American air fleet in Middle East skies ready to land at any moment for any contingency.

"...ready to land at any moment for any contingency."?

What could that possibly mean?

The Israeli, Egyptian and Saudi armies are on a high state of preparedness.

In parallel, The USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier is on its way from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean. Last Tuesday Oct. 11, as the US officials accused the Iranian government of directing a plot to assassination the Saudi ambassador to Washington, the Stennis was nearing the Red Sea.

The missions of the Stennis Battle Group, consisting of an additional seven warships, most of them destroyers and frigates, as well as Air Wing CVW-9, are to provide ground troops with combat support and strike land and sea targets. It is also able to sow mines over large areas around coastal regions and on the high sea.

Sunday, Oct. 16, US intelligence sources warned that the operation for the Israeli soldier's recovery from Hamas captivity (paid for by 1,027 jailed Palestinian terrorists) could touch off a spate of terrorist attacks in the region, most likely aimed at US embassies and Israel targets in and outside the country.

This may or may not have significance, but definitely worth watching.

Also in the news:

Iran's supreme leader calls US accusations 'meaningless'

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei denies Washington's claim that Iran is behind plot to assassinate Saudi ambassador to Washington and attack Saudi and Israeli embassies

"A meaningless and nonsensical accusation has been raised against a few Iranians in America, which was made into an excuse to present the Islamic Republic as a supporter of terrorism," Khamenei told a crowd in the western province of Kermanshah.

"It didn't work, it won't work," he said.

Khameni, who is on a nine-day tour of the province, said the west repeatedly made unfounded accusations against Iran.

Israel begins procesing Palestinian prisoners to be freed in Shalit deal

Israel early Sunday began transferring Palestinian prisoners to jails in the south and center of the country to prepare for the high-profile swap which will see the release of captive Israel Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shalit, Israel Radio reported.

The swap is scheduled to take place on Tuesday, a week after a deal was sealed between Israel and Hamas to free the soldier in exchange for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners.

Those returning to Gaza, will be going to Egypt first, from where they are scheduled to cross into the coastal enclave via the Rafah border crossing.

Over the next two days, the files will be prepared for consideration by Peres. However, the signing of the pardons won't occur until the outcomes of the appeals against the swap deal are decided.

And of course a news cycle wouldn't be complete without an update on the protests that we have been following.

The first article is an interesting overview of the different groups who are involved in this protect/movement and who they represent. I'll just quote the concluding remarks below:

Global Day Of Rage: Reporting Inside NYC's Massive Occupy Times Square March

As I sat down to write about my experiences today, I could hear a group of protestors as they streamed down from Union Square. After spending all day with the Occupiers, it was as if they wouldn’t leave me alone.

“Whose streets?” they yelled.

“Our streets,” in answer, over and over again.

There has always been something militant and unnerving about a group that claims to speak for 99% of the population, and that owns public streets.

The truth is, they are not the 99%.They might not even be the 50%. They are more likely the 20%— which is the estimated number of Americans who self-identify as liberal.

But when they are confronted by that reality in the months ahead, I expect things to get ugly.

They will scream “we are peaceful” as they inflict their will upon others, and give us a taste of what their version of democracy really looks like.

Perhaps more importantly, an anti-Israeli sentiment seems to be a growing aspect of these demonstrtaions:

Anti-Semitism tainting Occupy Wall Street protests

Several anti-Semitic incidents have been reported during "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations in New York as Jews were blamed for the turmoil in America's financial markets. In addition, anti-Israel signs were raised against "Israel's occupation of Gaza".

The "Emergency Committee for Israel" has published a hard-to-watch clip in which Jews are attacked and blamed for the financial crisis and assistance to Israel.

In the clip, a young demonstrator is seen arguing with an older Jewish man wearing a yarmulke. At one point, the young man says, "I work, earn seven dollars an hour. You have the money. You don't speak English? You are from Israel? Go back to Israel."

Another African-American protester accuses the Jews of taking over America. "The smallest group in America controls the money, media and all other things. The fingerprints belong to the Jewish bankers. I am against Jews who rob America.

Occupy Chicago Joins "Destroy Israel" Anti-war Anti-America "Peace" March

In our continuing coverage from last Saturday’s anti-war protest and march organized by the left-wing ANSWER Coalition, Code Pink, and the Gay Liberation Network, we have more alarming video to share. Alarming, but not surprising, given our footage of the same groups’ joint demonstration last March.

Organizers and protesters from Occupy Chicago joined these groups and provided support to last Saturday’s anti-war gathering. The protest carried a strong anti-Israel/anti-America message, a theme that both served as a rallying cry for the day

Hatem Abudayyeh, a local pro-Palestinian agitator, rose to stage to address the crowd regarding Israel and American imperialism.

He referred to Benjamin Netanyahu as a “fool” for his recent address to the U.N. General Assembly, and cheered the effectiveness of the global boycott and divestment in Israel, which he said was successfully putting a “dent in Israel’s indemnity over Palestine and the Arab world.”

...passed out flyers that read at the top, “Be a Passivist (sic), be a Nonviolent Activist, Refuse to Pay Taxes, Destroy Israel!”

This next bit of news is shocking to say the least:

Abudayyeh is not a rookie in the activist business. He is the executive director for the Arab American Action Network, which was founded by radical PLO propagandist Rashid Khalidi.

When President Obama was on the board of directors for the Woods Fund, they gave a $40,000 grant to Abudayyeh’s group, and the group has also received close to $500,000 in federal tax dollars.

Abudayyeh’s home was raided by the FBI in September 2009 along with 22 other radical activists, a few of whom joined him at the march, and were investigated for suspected ties and support to terrorist groups such as Hamas and the Colombian F.A.R.C. Abudayyeh also was a guest in Obama’s White House on April 22, 2010.

And this last story below is very interesting in terms of analyzing the "group-think" mentality that prevails in the midst of a mob gathering:

OWS: Are Mindless Americans Falling Prey to the Collectivist Trap?

A disturbing new trend has quietly taken hold over simultaneous nationwide protests in the United States over the last few weeks.

Visible throughout the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protests, is a technique dubbed as “The People’s Microphone”. It has been deployed nationwide, and is becoming the dominant vehicle for group interaction and communication. So what is it?

According to the official OWS wiki page:

“New York City requires a permit to use “amplified sound.” Since Occupy Wall Street does not have a permit, police have interpreted that to mean even the use of an electric bullhorn. As a response to such limitations, a phenomenon known as the “People’s Microphone” has evolved, where a person making a speech pauses while the nearby members of the audience repeats the previous phrase (somewhat) in unison.” The entry adds, “The (People’s Microphone) effect has been called “comic or exhilarating – often all at once.” Some feel this provided a further unifying effect for the crowd.”

But what is this really?

This article is actually fascinating and a good read. Below are just a few tidbits:

OWS’s new People’s Microphone is quite simply a Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) application or technique. Its consensus arrival method, also known as “call-and-return”, has now become the audio device of choice- spreading across the country as quickly as the protests themselves.

Crowd participants slowly repeat each phrase the leading speaker is saying to them, with a series of hand signs used to provide the speaker and the group with feedback.

You've probably seen this process in some of the videos circulating. The speaker says a few words and the crowd chants the same words in unison.

To the casual observer, this new system of communication may appear as compelling, as it is metaphoric. It might also remind you of the infamous ‘pass the conch’ scene from the Nobel Prize-winning novel by William Golding, Lord of the Flies.

In this way, such NLP methods can also be used to promote ‘group-think’ and could be described as collectivist mind control education at its very finest.

Successful NLP systems like this are commonly used by sales people in business, as well as in advertising and of course politics, working in restricted bloc of words, and often with restricted vocabularies.

The NLP ‘call-and-repeat’ mechanism can no doubt be used to hypnotic effect.

Often these type of techniques are used in order to filter out the free thinkers, intense self-policing at its most stringent.

Notice that when group members are disagreeing, their hands are much lower, but at their maximum when ‘the bloc’ seems to all be in agreement.

What these protestors are hardly aware of, is that they may be participating a form of modern day group-think.

It is a form of social control whereby everyone in the group believes that they must all agree and must all be of the same mind. Armed with this power new tool, consensus promoters can be bussed into sites around the country, training groups to chant key group-think talking points using mnemonic phrases.

The People’s Microphone can also lead a group to believe by these hand signal votes they can create a law and enforce it.

This can often result in an oxymoronic “totalitarian-consensus”, where a perceived consensus occurs, but in reality, a consensus was only reach because each member of the group was afraid to be ejected from the collective.

This form of mob mentality can be dangerous because the leader of a group is leading their flock towards his or her direction of choice, but still offering them the illusion it is ‘what everyone in the community wants’.

In the classic film Dr Zhivago, scenes appear in which leading “intellectual” group-thinkers demolish the private property of others because, according to the collective, “they don’t deserve to own it”.

Taking this concept is taken to its extreme form, a mob or individual within the mob could intimidate or even physically assault a person, while the mob believe they are just watching what the collective, or ‘community’ wants to happen.

Not surprising really. Exactly what one would expect from this entire movement. This might be a good time to dust off the book "1984" and re-read it - because that is exactly where we are headed.


Robin said...

And oddly enough, can't find a single mainstream source for the 22nd Airborne's airlift tomorrow.  

Nor can I find a single source, not even Fox, connecting the dots between the alleged plot by Iran, in cahoots with Mexican drug thugs, to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the US . . .with the story from last January, in which an Iranian suicide pamphlet was found in the Arizona dessert where the Mexican drug cartel runs drugs.

Whats the MATTER with the media these days?  Is this just Agenda 21 preventing media from reporting some of this stuff?  We have Iranians CLEARLY involved with the same Mexican Drug Cartels the US has been supplying guns to?  

Caver said...


Reading any number of articles along the same lines this morning from all over the world...except the USA's LSM. Consensus of opinion seems pretty much the same.

French buying the story of the assignation but they're about the only ones. Russia and China especially but most everyone else saying its pure hogwash or they're skeptical to really amateurish. Obummer will try and build on it to say this was only tip of the worldwide ice-burg to do the same thing.

Carrying it further, everybody concerned that it will be used to justify the "green light" for Israel and even to provide support in getting them to do the "dirty" work with Iran. Story was supposed to give the Saudis their incentive and justification to provide assistance for air corridor and maybe even more support.

Interesting to note that for Obummer's first two years he held up ALL all military deliveries to Israel. Now, the reverse...we are seeing stories of providing not just bunker buster bombs...but bunker busting missiles. The Israeli planes can only carry up to 2000 lb bombs, not enough to get the really deep and hardened facilities but the missiles can carry the huge ones if the missile is powerful enough to carry it.

To get a feel for the "big boys" go take a look at ...

Then to read that the window of opportunity only last for 2 months at the outside and really, only 2 weeks for optimum has to make you think....Ground troops too? Really, the sky works every day of the year, not so with ground forces.

Robin said...

Great point, Caver . . .I'd forgotten about the armaments the US held up from Israel. There's no doubt Obama is pushing war in the Middle East to involve Israel. But to what end? What does he hope to accomplish?

As we inch closer to election 2012, I just can't shake this feeling there won't be one . . .

Waterer said...

Are you watching the king Memorial Dedication??? It is Occupy, Occupy Occupy!!
Redistribute wealth. You are so right Scott, his is very craftily times. The original date for the dedication was in August. His Daughter said it was providential that it was put off until today after seeing our world take on these Occupiers for freedom. ( my words)

Robin said...

I'll bet King wouldn't have been good with his daughter postponing the dedication date to coincide with a Hate Group's protest. What hypocrisy!

Do you guys recall a brief discussion we had a couple weeks ago about the possibility the Pope was resigning next spring to make way for Malachi's prophetic prediction of the last Pope? Just came across this news story:'s-Platform/id-6aad39f823254d4ea56ef7c5ca68eb96

Looks like Pope Benedict is setting the stage for his announcement that his decrepit ailing body is too frail to continue on in his current role as Pope.

Scott said...

Good points all around. Waterer/Robin - The timing is unreal and I had forgotten that this whole King think had been postponed.

I also didn't know about that article Robin - hmmm. Thats interesting as well.

Waterer said...

If you missed the ceremony try and get it online. Honestly, it was way out of the box from three or four different speakers. Inc Dan Rather.It was one world- esque

Robin said...

Could I get your opinions about something that's weighing heavily on my mind today?

I posted this video on my facebook wall:

It's Obama pledging his support for a Civilian Security Force.

My first thought when I heard this, was he meant a source made of civilians. However, this is what a friend of mine posted in the thread:


There is already a civilian security group. They are part of the military serving regular duty most of the time. They are trained specifically in non lethal methods of crowd control. A friend of mine was in basic training, after completing that, he and a handful of others were pulled into an entirely different program where they were on simulated American city streets (I believe it was new york city), and were trained how to subdue crowds in various forms of protest.


I suddenly realized, Obama wasn't talking about a CIVILIAN Security Force . . .but rather a military force to control the Civilian population! I have other friends in the military who've told me troops were being trained to control civil unrest but I'd not connected the dots.

Am I just really late to what's been obvious to everyone else? (I'm extremely literal so don't always interpret things at first glance the same as most people would, LOL) It appears this could possibly be behind the support of this movement by so many in the Democrat party (besides the obvious reasons, of course)

Caver said...

Robin, Obummer got a lot of criticism for this same thing before the election....and he shut it down until recently. Its in the socialists and communist play book.

He wanted a civilian "unofficial" force just as well financed as the military for internal use. He targeted the youth and that's who they use for this...easily brain washed, just like the useful idiots in OWS.

Hitler did the same with his "brown shirts". They spy on the family, friends, school, and neighborhood.

Mao did the same in the China Cultural Revolution. They roved the country side with their "little red book" and were responsible for sending millions to reeducation camps, prison, and death.

At the time folk thought Obummer would use them because nobody thought the military or police would put up with trashing our Constitution and going after our own people. Now we know that far more than we would like to think will, in fact, just blindly follow orders.

Who knows what the current play book contains...but the youth is a huge part of it.

Scott said...


You said something in this thread or an earlier one regarding concern over the '12 elections. i have the same concern.

As far as this civilian force, to me, it's splitting hairs to some degree. If he wanted to, he's use the military or the national guard anyway, so 'how' he does it is almost irrelevant. I think we may live to see martial law in this country - to me, the question is, will it be used to thwart the '12 elections. Or when will it happen. With any luck it will be after the Rapture.

Waterer - I'll take a look at that - if I can stomach it:) :)

WVBORN56 said...

I'm "feeling" that the USA is going to support Israel with he green light for the Iranian attack. Then the church disappears and America is devastated. Israel is committed to the fight but now must go it alone and Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38 quickly follow.

Or maybe not but I think it still all is coming to a head very soon.

At any rate, Maranatha, come soon Lord Jesus.

We had a another blessed day at church today and it would be so wonderful to live in that atmosphere daily X 1000!

Caver said...

Suspect you're right Scott. He can't afford to have the '12 elections fair and open. They're gone too far down the line the population is pretty upset and its gonna get worse. They've unmasked and there's no putting it back in the either wins or is defeated for a long long while.

No, the youth movement is only going to take them so far....and not far enough fast enough right now....IMHO.

WV....oh, I so agree. And a hearty Amen to the x1000+

Alice said...

Robin, I hadn't thought of the civilian army in the light your facebook poster states, either, but like Scott says, I suppose it's just semantics...

But regarding that civilian army, I remember it was one of the things that was buried in the 3000 pg health care bill... or was it the stimulus bill? Does anyone else remember this?

When I mentioned it to a couple of friends at the time and they just looked at me like I had three heads...

DrNofog said...

Re: Civilian Security Force.

Resurrecting the dearly departed, dead horse for yet another beating...

Yes, this was the 1st major alarm bell that went off amongst us "conservative Christian, right-wing extremists" back when he 1st mentioned it!

In Dr. Stuart Crane's classic "Proofs of a Conspiracy", [circa 1968], he pointed out the 500yr old tried & true principle found in Machiavelli's book "The Prince":

"When you come to power by revolution, destroy the revolutionaries that brought you to power because they're malcontents, and they will overthrow you too. Keep the state army because they are loyal to the state and they will keep you in power."

This has been diligently followed in the majority of revolutions in the past 500 yrs.. It was his Bolshevik buddies that Lenin had in front of the firing squads and Trotsky fled, only to be found wearing an axe in the back of his head in Mexico city shortly thereafter...

And Adolf had his youth group, the Brown Shirts, arrested and 'disposed of', and so it goes on, etc. etc...

He also pointed out that the Congressional investigations revealed that the full-time, "professional" agitators in the 1968 riots were being funded by guess who?... The 1st three tax-free foundations that were created 1yr before the income tax was allegedly passed on American Citizens: Ford, Rockefeller, and Carnegie Foundations!
[ie. "the Establishment"]

Of course, that raises the question of why would "the Establishment" be funding Marxists to "overthrow" the Establishment??

When the canon-fodder in the streets starts putting the torch to everything, that'll be Obummer's excuse for declaring a "National Emergency", imposing martial law, and putting off the phony elections "temporarily" until the "true peace" of the Marxist Utopia is achieved...

It seems the 1968 riots was a test run [we weren't quite 'ripe' enough then] for what is about to happen here and around the world...

Mrs. C said...

My Dear Brothers & Sisters, :)
I will not be posting here perhaps for awhile, and I just wanted to let you know, how much I love you all.
In reviewing a thread here the from the other evening, something caught my attention, and that was a poster here that is not being honest about their identity. This person previously caused much discourse at another time, exposing a pro-paly propaganda, anti-Israel sediments, and now had returned deceptively disguised with another name. This person still holds these feelings towards Israel, as it recently seeped out to the surface, ever so briefly stated, within a much larger post the person made.
I will not "call out" this person, as Scripture tells us we are to speak with that person in private. I will leave it up to the Holy Spirit to guide you all to the Truth of this matter. The Lord created me as a detailed person, and please forgive me, but I kinda pay a lot of attention to those details. After recognizing some of the persons recent posts with signed initials, and experiencing the second round of "discussion" filled with strife and causing divisiveness, it has been made clear to me who the person is as they did this before. It is one thing to confess, to be honest as to who you are, what your about, and another to deceive other Brothers and Sisters, all the while projecting to be someone they are not, perhaps hoping to in a subtle way, change them to a blinded way of thinking. Repenting is good, as we have all done it! and we ALL fall short of the Glory of God! ALL of us. I have Prayed greatly about this, and find myself with a difficult decision. We are so very, very close to the Rapture, and I have been under His Holy Spirits conviction with specific Scripture to study and share for a while now. Telling the Truth however, always wins, yet I cannot say it in this medium of the Internet as then I would be violating His Word that is applied towards Brothers and Sisters when we council them if they error.
This breaks my heart, like you don’t even know! But please understand, I cannot continue to come on here and pretend like everything is normal, when there is a wee bit of deception going on here, because if I do, then it causes me to become part of the deception.
Please forgive me, but I have no other way of communicating this to you all. I thank you for the privilege of sharing and learning His Word with you all, and I shall cherish that forever! And together…forever! with Him, is where we will all be someday very soon, and it truly will be a joyous day! Sister Paula, the insights the Holy Spirit gave you, were truer than you know. Truly, I love you all so very much…and yes…you too Stephen (lol thru tears)…
Scott…my Brother, thank you so much for the privilege of being here, and allowing all of us to fellowship and learn together! I love you Brother…Big Hug :)
God Bless You All! May the Lord keep you safe in the Palm of His Hand…

Robin said...

Caver, the point isn't so much a Civilian force AND a military force. . .my point is this . . .that it's a force used to control Civilians . . .this a "CIVILIAN" Security Force. I think you're reading it the same as I've done since Obama said it . . .and not really getting wigged out about it because, to date, there's not been any action taken. Not in the civilian population, anyway . . .but clearly, there's action taken in the military. I hadn't considered that's what Obama meant until now, just changing the way I read the term changed everything for me.

Thanks all . . .guess I should have found you guys a few years back :) But it's really all becoming crystal clear just how all this is on the verge of playing out.

Do any of you recommend stockpiling certain necessities? I know the Bible tells us He'll take care of us and I expect the Rapture any day . . .but if things get bad, and we're left waiting for a time before the Groom comes for us, are you prepared? Another board I belong to feel strongly we shouldn't make any such plans but place all our faith in God.

Robin said...

Oh, Mrs. C . . .I would kindly ask you to reconsider leaving this group. You've no idea how much encouragement I've received from your obviously anointed posts.

While I have a slight idea of the post you're referring to with the underlying antisemitism as I clicked on a link they shared, I can't for the life of me remember the name of the poster. While I've been reading Scott's blog for sometime, I rarely ventured into the comments section until recently.

Please consider remaining? Message Scott with this person's identity and let him take it from there. Please? But if not, you'll be missed . . .and we'll continue keeping you in our prayers.

Caver said...

Dr. No, excellent history lesson. Much I knew, more I didn't. Wow!

Robin, guess there's a lot of ways of reading the words Civilian here. I think what's been referenced is using the Judicial, Military, and quasi civilian/police/military to control the Civilians.

A study was done I believe called the Psalm 23 study about 10+ years ago. It sought to determine how much of the military would follow orders to violate the constitution and shoot a citizen that would not hand over a legally held fire arm. It found that just over 10% of the ranks would follow that order.

Who knows what that number is now.

As for supplies....guess we feel the Lord showed us what we might need and did put in some supplies for "just in case".

Robin said...

You very well could be right, Caver . . .after all . . .recently there have been two US citizens in the Middle East (born here, not naturalized) who were agents of terrorists and were targeted in drone attacks. So it would appear, the military IS turning guns on it's own citizens. We've come along way if Obama is now the Judge, jury and executioner of American citizens. I'm not, in any way, condoning these two Americans obvious involvement in terrorist activities, but wouldn't killing them without trial be far worse than even water boarding non-US citizens???

DrNofog said...

Caver said... "...the Psalm 23 study..."

LOL, Caver!!

After picking myself up off the floor...
No doubt you were referring to the 29 Palms Military Survey, [a good tool for forcing the retirement of Constitutional solders and keeping the SS goon squads]...

Anonymous said...

Dear All:
As far as supplies: It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. If the stuff hits the fan, what will you do? You will have to be self-reliant...Gary

DrNofog said...

Don't go Mrs C., I didn't mean it, honest!

PS. there are some vs somewhere about standing and teaching truth...

Caver said...

Roaring here too....try not to bump into you rolling on the floor. Well, I had one of the numbers and all the letters right....if not in the right order.

Still chuckling.....

Yep, Doc....was in a bit too much of a hurry here. Good catch and rejoicing in the thought of catching you one of these days. :) Paybacks are to be savored.

DrNofog said...

Gary, I have had a recurring impression for the past month or so that I should print out little notes & put them in all my tool cabinet drawers and also in our pantry of reserved food stuff that says something along the lines of:

"If you are finding all my tools & food stuff, and we are no longer to be found here, --> Then we are either in a FEMA "Re-education" detention camp/prison prior to the Rapture, or... --> We have already been 'snatched up' by the Lord Jesus in the Rapture prior to the "Great Tribulation" that is coming upon the world.

Please take this last opportunity to "call upon the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved"!

God bless you!"

Scott said...

drNo - if we run into you at a FEMA camp - how will we know your identity? I realize you are deep undercover - but when we get to the camps, you'll have to 'unveil' yourself somehow :)

Caver said...

Robin and DrNo. Please don't think I'm blind or unaware. I know the Lord is going to handle this....He always does when all concerned seek His guidance.

DrNo, I passed on your comment. She is very upset right now but it was / is appreciated.

Robin, she loves ya Sis.

Scott said...

Blind and unaware is how I go through life !
Are you being critical of me now? :)

GG said...

Dear Mrs C-

I just noticed the latest postings of today. I am so sorry to hear that your not posting for a bit. I can't help to think with the rough bumps in the road that has happened for some this week that had any of my postings caused this? I can't think of anything specific but my goodness you are so special in my heart that I have come to know over these past few months. The growth I have obtained and gotten to share has been better than church on most days :). I am going to miss seeing your post which are much needed in these last days to help many sort through the confusion.

I have humbly been thinking about leaving for about a month now. Not because anyone has done anything to me. Because I am getting sicker and need certain soul food to get me through this. I love you all so much and thank you for receiving me like you have. I do look forward to meeting you on the other side. I am offering up myself through brother James and emailing off the group if there is something I have done to hurt your beautiful spirit OK?

I love you all and will take the news but will not be offering post up any longer. Doc, I can't wait to meet you :). I have so many funnies, that I have a feeling I am going to have a big Auh Hah moment with you.

God Bless you all! Mrs. C. Big Super Hugs from me to you.


Waterer said...

Dear Mrs. C, Scott and all,
I am Kathy Russell aka Waterer. Scott knows this and has known it from the beginning of the use of this name.I emailed him after my first change of name so he would know it was me and why I was using it. I came onto this site
( having encouraged it's start up) many times before I ever posted at all. I have NOT got one speck of anti Israel dust in my eye.
I made a dumb musing aloud comment that brought strong angst from both Mr. and Mrs Caver.
I had been working through the teachings of Art Katz ( a strong JEWISH believer who seemed to ( he is profoundly Intellectual, the kind you listen to three times and try to follow all the Scripture and still can't re quote) be challenging the ARab student groups at Harvard, tanford and many other groups at the coming judgment of God upon all the nations. His principle challenge was that HOW THEY treat the Coming horror of the trib and cheer when Israel is again fleeing for their lives will be in direct correllation to their Judgment. He cautioned Israel as well because their return in the Tribulation will be with belief.
He was cautioning the pro Israel
evangelical groups to not stop praying for the salvation of our root Bros and sisters and think that the Israel we see is the final Israel but is on it's way to seeing their Redeemer.
ON the day I posted my musing it was not following a particular controversy , and Scott also told me my writing had been hard to understand. In the attempt to say at the time with heavy defense from the Cavers ( they thinking I was an anti semite) I couldn't seem to get my point across. I think I even said ( I wish at this point I like you was discussing this with an alias).
I came on with my entire name thinking the aliases were less than honest. Scott had with my permission, posted our ministries website when I was using my name.
( teachings of many years are posted and used for home Bible studies. ( YOu will not find any anti semitism in them at all!!!!)

Waterer said...

Part 2
I discussed the online embarrassing argument with my prayerteam and they suggested I use the form of dialogue that was common on the site for the sake of the ministry to not be asso with questions that I had and was hoping to participate with but not as a teacher.
I used the Waterer tag. I enmailed Scott immediatelky to tell him so that this would bot be deceptive. As I have said here before, I have never done this discussion board kind of thing and I am a novice. I have at times used my initials KR as a signature ( not a ruse) because it feels more authentic.
I posted a Question about Art Katz here recently too asking if anyone else was familiar with his teachings/ I then sent an article by Art ( very long) to Scott to see at his convenience if I was off in studying his teachings. I had actually heard Art speak before he died and before ever meeting Scott, At Scott's church.
He was supported and sponsored for speaking by a Jewish believer . from and very loved by our church.sScott answered me that he saw no problem with what he read from Art. ( My concern was that I had asked on this blog if any had read him and then wondered if I was bringing something that was problematic.

Paula took offense at my question about using the common diss name for Obama. It was a question and I saw through your respectful disagreement that we came at this thing differently. I was not trying to change this blog or have some hidden agenda.
If my presence here offends you and Paula, I will leave.

ONe other thing. Remember when Bill Cosby was speraking out about his heartache over the situation among black American families and gang warfare? He, being black said some pretty tough things. SOme were glad , but many gave him a hard time. But he was a black man ,with tons of work behind him, speaking out of his heart. If anyone quoted Cosby they could and did risk sounding racist even if they were agreeing with a balck man.
This is my situation here with Art Katz. A completed Jew, a real disciple of Jesus, speaking hard things to all groups. When I tried to put his words in my own
words I got into troub;e BIG TIME.
I was bewildered with the come back because I am PRO Israel. No matter how many times I said it, it missed it's mark.
I am alos surprised that if I use an alias, that it is seen as dishonest when all of you use them. In fact I tried using Anonymous and I think Dr. No suggested I use a name so you would know which Anonymous I was. That is when I picked Waterer, and lket Scott know I was doing it.I have been very sorry that Paulka did not come back into these discussions in recent days and have been praying for a healing in that relationship.

Caver said...

Dear Sis GG, please rest assured this has nothing to do with you. You are very dear to her. She thinks your writings are so beautiful.

If, in fact, you do stop posting also you will be sourly missed. There will be prayers from the Caver house for your health and your family. We're so close, Sis. Things are happening so fast...we're close.

We're not sure of James's email but MrsC wants you to know that should you need her, she will be here. She will leave no one hanging that needs her but feels awkward here for the moment.

GG said...

Hi Mr. C-

Thanks so much but I am so sick my hair is falling out :). See you guys are like a family to me that I love. I think that is why I can press in so close to the Lord is through a long battle with sickness. No death in site but long, drawn out agony. God is working my spirit because on some days the pain is so high I can't believe I didn't get a time out with my mouth (ha ha). So to preserve all I have left this is the best way. I can say humbly in the past month all these messages I have given are HS filled and driven. May you all get to see his thoughts above ours. I know it can be hard to do. Save a place for me and my family on the other side. Bring our daughter a flyin' squirrel :)

Love you all...


Waterer said...

DOn't leave. YOu and Mrs. C are invaluable to this blog as is Paula.
I will go.
I did not know you are ill. Will be praying for you dear sister
and remember you all with affection,
Kathy Russell

GG said...

Hi Waterer-

You are so valued too. I remember when Scott sent us to your site :). My leaving is not with any ill will or offense, I promise. I feel we are very,very close. I am without much energy these days. I will be spending much time in prayer and wisdom. I am praying with this family here you all go out and make our Father proud. I believe many newbies are going to be coming your way. They are going to need the insight. It trulynis OK, I am needed elsewhere.

One last thing I wanted to share was a profound thought with these OWSers. I feel compelled to note this but it may be nothing. I find it very interesting the turns this is taking. Soros, Obama both supporting and backing this very demise. I see one letter away from OWLS. I can't help but think what types of things could have been pre-planned at Bohemian Grove. Please understand I am not a conspiracy theorist but this is standing out more and more in my mind these past few days. The level of deception is quite high out there. Please pray and be safe. I feel like we are inside a bubble with our faces pressed against it and on the outside we can see and feel the evil. It is very thick to say the least. Pray, serve, love and protect one another in these last days.

God Bless!!


WVBORN56 said...

When people leave my solid bible believing/teaching church....I grieve....I think the Lord grieves too.

Scott said...

GG - very well stated. Hope you are doing well. God Bless

Diane said...

Why don't you all stay?!
You are all precious and have such good things to share. The body is not complete without each part.

When I consider the diversity here, I am surprised that people get along as well as we all do. Only the Holy Spirit could knit hearts together like this, over the world wide web.

I understand that the mission of this blog is to encourage each other and to be a source/ witness for those who are questioning.

While we are in these bodies, we will have natural emotions, but these difficult times are just a second in the light of eternity. Someday (soon) we will laugh about this (if it is even remembered). Diane

Scott said...

Lots of wisdom there - Thanks :)

Dave down under said...

Guys I'm sitting in my little corner of the world enjoying up until now the analytical giftings of this body of Christ. Fair enough people come and people go but we need to remember "spiritual warfare". The last thing Satan wants us to do as Christians is form an end times web sight and put our Holy Siprit inspired minds together and work out what's happening next. This web is a major evangelical tool which will be used to speak comfort and encouragement to those who are wondering "What the heck is going on". Please try and keep it together guys, you are my only real time source of news. This end times ballon is approaching critical mass and we need all hands in deck to decode what Satan and his demons are up to. God bless you all. Sorry for my insensitivity.

DrNofog said...

Ditto, Diane & Dave DU!

Sometimes all we need to do is just let all the dust settle for awhile 1st soz we can have a clearer view of the situation [and sight in on our next target]... ;)

Waterer, I agree with you. Some of Yer posts do seem confusing at times.

And see, now I'm getting the impression that you want to think some of this was your doing, but that would be wrong to me 'cause I already claimed the credit... er, uhmm, blame for it 1st...

waterer said...

Yea No Fog,
The problem with claiming all the credit myself is that old control thing. If you can make it your problem then maybe you can fix it too.
I can't seem to fix this.
Mrs. C has been a very faithful teacher and connector here for a long time.
When I referenced the Obummer paly name thing it was the same issue for me. Respect. I do not mean respect for Hamas , or the other hatefilled groups. I mean for lost people. Mrs. C. had posted an excellent article by C. Glick on the shrinking number of Christians in Arab lands.

"The Forgotten Christians of the East"
"It is unclear what either Western governments or Western churches think they are achieving by turning a blind eye to the persecution of Christians in the Muslim world."
The last stat or so was the number in the Bethlehem area. Hugely diminished. All of the Christians there do not have the same politcal leanings anymore than we do. Yet they would be called Palestinian. My prob was thinking that the Paly word conveyed respect for the people who nobody wants. Sort of like southerners being painted by everyone as racists when we are not.
That is as clear as I can make it. The original spat was over quoting from a friends funeral their faithfulness to pray for Israel and his reminder to pray for their spiritual peace not just the city.
That is a good thing to pray. I do not mean do not pray for peace for Israel too. But rather for the Lord's light to shine in that very fragmented part of the world so that the Messiah is made known to them all.
I think the spat here is warfare. Because no matter what is said there seems to be misunderstanding over it.
I'm very sorry that my contributions are iffy at best.

I did apologize last week. Very thoroughly. Neither offended party forgave me. That is on their plate not mine.

Caver said...

Hi Waterer,

Sis, I just saw the last sentence of the above post. If this was to me, and I failed to acknowledge an apology then please forgive me. Of course I accept and we just move on. Life is full of learning for each and every one of us.

Failure to acknowledge any apology offered me was due to my schedule right now. I have to admit that I do not read all of every entry sometimes. Like many here, it seems I am stretched to my limit on so many fronts and there just isn't enough hours in the day.

So, if I failed to acknowledge then please, the apology is a two way street. This is mine to you Sis.


Mrs C created an email address last night just for you. Its Feel free to email her at any time Sis.

Gotta run...the starting gun just went off gotta get all the snakes rounded up that escaped during the weekend and get them back in the box.....hopefully without getting bit.

God Bless everybody....have a wonderful day!

GG said...

Thank you Mr. & Mrs. C~

Love to you all here. Have a blessed day!!


Waterer said...

Thank you Caver. having hurt or angered your wife was not my intention BUT having done so , I am very sorry.
Your forgiveness put some light in my morning.Thank you.

Sharon said...

I am a sister in Christ who is in the women's Bible study taught by the Waterer, Kathy. I am saddened by the misunderstanding that has occurred in these electronic messages, which doesn't always allow the full meaning to be understood (ie emotions, nonverbal body language, verbal inflection and immediate clarifications are missing). I agree with Dave from Down Under. I think that satan has finally found this enouraging and Light emitting (of Jesus' coming glory) blogsite. He is working to steal, kill and destroy this site along with all things of God. We need to let God's word and the Holy Spirit guide, instruct and protect us, along with our obedience to His leading.

I would like to speak on behalf of Kathy. I have been in the Bible studies that she teaches for over 10 years. (She does not know that I am writing this.) Kathy is a dear sister in Christ. She loves Jesus. She enjoys teaching and drawing others closer to Christ. She is open about some of her short comings before Christ and is humbled by this, which she uses to encourage us to be honest before God. She in not anti-Israel/Jew. She is not a wolf in sheep's clothing regarding the Muslims. She encourages us to shine Jesus' Light into the places and people that He has placed near us. She teaches us about how much the Father and Son love us and how much we are forgiven, with the command that we go forth and do the same. -- There are many times that as I would read Mrs. C's comments, I would picture Mrs C and Kathy in Heaven deep in discussion. I pray for understanding, forgiveness, healing and a return of this picture. (But I also think of EI Sue, Hartdawg, Ally, who have come and gone. God's Girl many prayers will follow you for God's blessings in and through your walk.) -- Let's choose to let God reign in this site.

Waterer said...

Dear Sharon,
Thank you so much.
I am sure that those who know Mrs. C would have her back too.
I am deeply sorrowed over this.
I really needed support today. THank you so very much!

Diane said...

I am not sure if the Waterer is the same Kathy Russell I knew, teaching a women's Bible study in the "Tar Heel" town (Discovery, I think it was), but if you are that same KR, I can vouch for you being a wonderfully Bibical and encouraging teacher.
If you are not that KR, there is someone else with your very name whom I wish you could meet!

(The only reason I do not attend that Bible study anymore is due to a work schedule conflict.) Diane

Waterer said...

Diane, Yes. That's me and Discovery is still together. 22 years.
We miss so many who have had to go back to work.

Love to you!

Diane said...

Wow! I am so glad to know that you are on this blog, Kathy! I found your teachings so encouraging.
I remember the one in which you talked about Rahab and I realized: The Lord went to great lengths to graft her into his family line , so that anyone could know they could be "accepted in the beloved".
I also remember when you talked about us needing to leave notes around the house, so that people would find them if/when we are raptured. That was 16, 17 tears ago. What a blessing you were/ are to so many women.

In another vein, we used to attend a church many years ago , and one of the elders was a "completed Jew". He was good friends with Art Katz, and brought him to speak at the church. I remember his teaching being a bit hard to understand at times, like reading The Book of Hebrews , as compared to maybe reading The Book of John. I have always found Jewish believers to have a sort of special annointing.

Glad you are here and God bless you and your dear husband , both servants of the Lord. Diane

Waterer said...

Dear Diane,

Thank you for your welcome.

Isn't the family of faith the most wonderful gift? The study of Scriptures binds hearts and minds like nothing else I have ever known. Music has a soulful effect too but remembering the Word with someone is completing somehow. Like all the pieces are put together.Rahab. We must have been in MAtthew that year or Hebrews. I remember we put Hebrews one semester and Revelation the next.
I still laugh about this choice of books all in one year. But the Lord was so faithful to speak to us and bring some understanding of very huge topics.I have retaught Hebrews and Matthew in the years since but have not repeated Revelation. I met Scott when he was teaching on a series at Aqueduct on the Signs of the COming Christ. Iwas prepping for Daniel that Fall and had not heard anyone teach on end times practically in YEARS. SUch a gift. has alot of the studies from Discovery and Legacy ( meets on Fri.s)The work that has gone into the website and podcasts ( free) are at the feet of some of the Discovery women They are being used in little studies in homes and churches and for commuters.
It isn't about me. It is about the Word being read line by line and the discussions and fellowship that comes out of that. I have been honored by knowing these faithful and dear servants of the Lord.
I am very grateful for your words about Art Katz too. The analogy of Hebrews to John is very apt!
I think I was unwise to have tried to discuss his viewpoints without Scripture but really I had not heard him in some years and I was wondering about some of the strong emphases he brought to the last days discussions. He lived in and established a commune for the protection of Jews during the coming times. I do not think he was pre trib but his teaching on Jacobs Trouble , the coming assaults on Jews not just in Israel but everywhere was something no one I had ever heard had talked about. Also he is full of Scripture and his linear arguments for the judgements ( while taking some time to study) are still over my head.
I am sorry for having caused a break in fellowship on Scott's blog. Truly it was NOT my intention to change viewpoints but rather to discuss ( finally!) somethings which others NEVEr TALK ABOUT IN THE REGULAR WORLD.
I expected discussion not offense. That was foolish of me.
I am taking a break from the comments for awhile till this
distrust is past. I will be praying for that to happen.
Love to you Diane!
And to all the bros and sisters here in this good place.

DrNofog said...

Waterer, I don't see any need for "...taking a break from the comments for awhile..."

As Dave DU pointed out, this is just a typical assault of Satan to cause a break in our fellowship and our contributions that we *each* bring here.

You, and other that know you, have stated your case plainly enough [finally, for a change ;) ], and the only thing you're guilty of is maybe not being able to express yerself clearly in writing as you do in person. [a few paragraph breaks could help too...]

And your opinion on Obummer and Bubba Clintoon has been duly and properly noted for future reference and we will begin to ignore that immediately... ;-D

Since it's clear where all this is from, I think it's past time we all 'man up' [that'll be a tuff trick for the women to try... {I crack myself up again!} ;-D ], press forward, and continue our testimony here to the world.
God Bless.

DrNofog said...

And lest anyone [like Scott, WV, Caver, etc...] think that I miss the word "you" [for you "...taking a break], I was actually referring to moi, since EI is not here looking over my shoulder to keep me in line and Scott falls asleep at the keyboard more frequently these days [in his old age...], I can now "press forward" and run amok with my bizarre humor...

Diane said...

Ditto, Dr No, I agree completely.

Kathy , I remembered back that the 1st year I did Discovery was 1991-92. The 2nd year was a blur because I was helping a lot with the wonderful (not because of me) children's program.

I think that you have so many good things to say that it all just comes "tumbling out" sometimes. It is easy to understand in person, but maybe not so easy in the written word.

I too have written things which are totally misconstrued (but so far not in this blog, as far as I know)

I shall try and listen to some of your teachings on podcast. Thanks for the tip! I think women would love it if you did another study on "end times". When I retire, in a few years, (if the Lord tarries, which is hard to imagine), I would like to rejoin Discovery Bible Study .

Don't take a break (and I hope Mrs C comes back). Let's not give the Enemy any more ground, instead let's "press toward the mark " (Phillipians 3:13.) (There is a reason why I have that verse over my computer desk!) Blessings, Diane .

Waterer said...

Diane, Check out Daniel Under Libraries on the website. We LOVED it!
Thanks No FOg too. I will run all this by my husband and see what he adds to this. We ate dinner out last night and partly he is apalled and partly like you guys he cracks up at our absolute coming apart when we disagree.He deals with things like this all the time and they have to forgive and keep moving.

I admitted to Scott too that I have not been prayerful before posting here like I am when I teach and that has been a big mistake.

I HOPE the others come back!!!!!!!!!

Scott said...

I have some general comments but



Diane said...

Kathy, thanks for the tip about Daniel. I will look for it.

I/we have visited your church many times over the years.
Most recently, we visited with my daughter and her hubby ,who are seriously considering joining.
So, the next time I see you , I will try and speak with you.

You are like a spring, constantly bubbling up and over with good things !

Philippians 3:13-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Blessings, Diane

Waterer said...


Can't wait to see you and put a face with your name!