Tuesday, October 11, 2011

In the news:

The Middle East:

We can see that both Christians and Jews are under siege in the Middle East.

Egypt's Christians vent fury at army after deadly clashes

Women in Cairo's Coptic hospital wailed for their dead on Monday and Christians accused Egypt's generals of failing to protect them from strict Islamists after 25 people, most of them Coptic demonstrators, were killed in clashes with troops.

Christian activists said the army used armored vehicles to disperse protesters at Maspero, an area around the state television building, after other tactics failed. They described seeing corpses that had been crushed under the vehicles.

Christians under seige in post-revolution Egypt

Now many fear that the power vacuum left after the overthrow of Hosni Mubarak is giving Muslim extremists free rein to torch churches and attack Coptic homes in the worst violence against the community in decades.

But shortly after Mubarak's ouster, a series of assaults on Christians brought home a stark reality: The fading of authoritarian rule empowered Islamist fundamentalists, known here as Salafis, who have special resentment for Christians.

They are ultraconservatives, close to Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi interpretation of Islam and more radical than the Brotherhood. They seek to emulate the austerity of Islam's early days and oppose a wide range of practices they view as "un-Islamic"

Iranian Pastor's Fate May Rest With Ayatollah Khamenei

The attorney for Yousef Nadarkhani told CNN Monday that the persecuted Iranian pastor was still alive, though it remained uncertain whether the government would actually carry out his execution.

The decision, said Mohammad Dadkhah, who is representing Nadarkhani in his legal appeal, may ultimately rest with Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei

The Christian pastor’s fate was to be decided Monday, but Iran’s Supreme Court took the unusual step of asking Khomeini, Iran’s highest religious and political leader, for his input.

Arabs Attack Jews in Karnei Shomron Olive Harvest

The Arabs entered the security zone of the community ostensibly to harvest their olives, under the protection of the IDF, but reportedly used the opportunity instead to attack Karnei Shomron residents.

Yesterday (Sunday) Jewish hikers were also attacked by Palestinians hurling rocks. The Arabs were accompanied by extreme leftists toting cameras to photograph any attempt by Jews to defend themselves or retaliate.

Major Swiss Companies Submit to Islam: Remove Cross-Shaped Swiss Flag from Their Products

Switzerland's leading companies have removed Switzerland's cross-shaped flag from their products for the Islamic market. Swatch, Tissot and Victorinox logos, as iconic of their brand as NIKE"s check or McDonald's golden arches, are voluntarily censored, removed, in a breathtaking act of submission to a radical racist ideology that oppresses and subjugates all non-believers and women.

As for the Saudis demanding (under the sharia) that the cross not be shown in public, the West should respond in kind. No crescents and stars anywhere. Everywhere the sharia is imposed on the West, freedom lovers should respond in kind. Tolerance when applied to evil is a crime.

31 Die Minday in Syria's Continuing Crackdown

Syria's crackdown on protesters across the country is continuing, but opposition activists are beginning to fight back.

At least 31 people died Monday in clashes between protesters and Syrian soldiers. However, among the dead were 17 members of the Syrian army, as well as 14 civilian protesters, according to eyewitnesses quoted by human rights activists.

Most of the deaths took place in the city of Homs, invaded by government forces several weeks ago.

Palestinian FM: Abbas actively lobbying Security Council members to back statehood

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and French President Nicolas Sarkozy will meet in Paris in the coming days to discuss the Palestinian bid for statehood at the UN, a top Palestinian official told AFP on Tuesday.

The trip is aimed at lobbying Colombia and France, who are both on the 15-member UN Security Council.

The Middle East Quartet envoys said Sunday they will invite Israeli and Palestinian representatives for a first round of peace talks in the coming days, in an attempt to restart negotiations that have been stalled since 2008.

Envoys from the Quartet - the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia - met Sunday in Brussels to hash out a strategy as international pressure to reach a peace deal mounts.

Back to Wall Street:

This story is unbelievable and if true represents an incredible descent into complete anarchy:

Breaking: Operation Occupy Wall Streeters - SEIU's Stephen Lerner Leaks Plan to Terrorize Corporate Executives

Take a look at the video in this link above.

Radical labor organizer Stephen Lerner of SEIU intends to terrorize the families of bank executives in their homes as part of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

SEIU, a longtime ally of ACORN, has done it before, as ably documented by Big Government’s Liberty Chick.

The home invasions are scheduled to begin Tuesday.

Lerner, a prime architect of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, laid out the Left’s plans to his fellow Marxists at the left-wing Take the American Dream Back conference in Washington, D.C., on October 3, 2011.

These radical leftists who use the brutal, in-your-face, pressure tactics of Saul Alinsky want to destroy America as we know it and will use any means to do it.

The Occupiers' World Awaits

My most heartfelt wish for the mindless minions currently "Occupy[ing] Wall Street" is that someday, hopefully soon, they get to live in a world based upon their dim-witted delusions. Actually, though, if these collectivist cretins are indeed serious, that world is already here.

It's called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (aka communist North Korea). In North Korea, there are no evil corporations or banks to ruin Occupiers' lives, because another pair of collectivist cretins, Kim Il-sung and his creepy son Kim Jung-il, got rid of them long ago.

In fact, along with ridding North Korea of everything other than the glorious state, the Kim Klan has either already met most of the Occupier's nattering demands or simply made them superfluous.

Demands already met:

For demands one (that is not a typo -- there are a lot of demands in demand one), "the restoration of the living wage," North Korea has followed the Occupiers' proposed playbook and ended "Freetrade [sic]" by creating a trade-free society.

Demand two, "a universal single payer healthcare system," was instituted way back in 1948. For more than sixty years now, all of North Korea's lucky citizens have received the same horrendous level of medical treatment.

The Occupiers will be heartened to know that everyone does his or her "fair share" of suffering.

And fear not, dear Occupiers -- because the government is in charge, greedy private insurers cannot take money away from doctors, nurses, and hospitals...because there is no money.

But the biggest benefit is that there are no big pharmaceutical companies to stick it to the average North Korean by producing life-saving drugs (or any drugs, for that matter) and selfishly expecting payment for them.

There is really good news when it comes to demand three, a "[g]uaranteed living wage income regardless of employment." The cost of living (i.e., barely surviving) is real cheap in North Korea, with the average North Korean living (i.e., barely surviving) on one dollar per month. Additionally, there are almost no jobs, so employment is not a concern.

The good news just keeps coming as the benevolent Kims have already met demand four: "free college education." But there are a few strings attached, such as that you do not get to go to the college of your choice, if you get to go at all; that would be up to the state.

Also, sometimes the benevolent North Korean government might decide to send you to a re-education institution instead (maybe for publicly demonstrating, or just because it feels like it). But, on the bright side, there are no student loans to pay off -- only the continued payment of a lifelong servitude to the state.

Demand five is one the Kim Klan has made unnecessary: "begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand." There is no economy in North Korea, so there is no need to fuel it. However, on the bright side, the North Koreans do use an alternative energy -- burning feces -- to heat their homes during the winter.

Demand six is another superfluous petition: "One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now." The Kims have made it so North Korea does not need roads and bridges because no one can afford a car anyway, and an electrical grid is just a wasted expense in a country with barely any electricity.

This article continues with another 7 demands which have been met in N. Korea. Read it: one can see where we are headed.

And finally, we see another article on the Canary Islands:

Subsea Volcanic Eruption Underway Near El Hierro

A submarine volcanic eruption is taking place approximately 5 kilometres off the southern coast of El Hierro, the smallest of The Canary Islands.

Spanish newspaper laopionion.es quoted the Minister of emergencies of the Cabildo of El Hierro, Maria of Carmen Morales, as saying the eruption is taking place because ‘the seismic movement of 4.3 occurred on Saturday afternoon caused a fissure, from where the energy is been released’. Scientists remain unclear if the emissions are gas or lava.

The eruption takes place amidst an unprecedented earthquake swarm in El Hierro. The number of earthquakes recorded since July 17, 2011 on El Hierro has now exceeded 10,000.

Hierro, a shield volcano, has had a single historic eruption from the Volcan de Lomo Negro vent in 1793. The eruption lasted approximately one month and produced lava flows.


Mrs. C said...

Morning Brother Scott :)
Came across Caroline Glick's newest article this morning. Wow, just wow!

"The Forgotten Christians of the East"
"It is unclear what either Western governments or Western churches think they are achieving by turning a blind eye to the persecution of Christians in the Muslim world."


God Bless!

Paula said...

Off topic: got this message from my brother--

"Mom's continuing to improve - her kidney function is better, and just a little below normal now. What is amazing to me is, she has not taken any diabetes medicine for about 3 weeks now. I'm not sure what to think about that yet, as she has more doctor visits ahead, but Thank You God for all mercies."

Thanks to you all for your prayers, not only for her but for my sister who is still cancer-free. May God bless you and heal you, and work the same miracles for you.

Seth said...

While we're on the topinc of medical issues... My gallbladder is out. The Dr said it was REALLY inflamed, but he was still able to do it without cutting me open, which will mean a quicker recovery. I'm having periods of intense pain, but I did just have major surgery yesterday. Pain meds definitely help. Thank you all for your continued prayers.

Caver said...

Thank You Father!...for prayer answered.

Paula, Seth, and everyone....thank you for keeping us updated.

May all the Glory and Praise be unto Him.

GG said...


That is great news! I pray you are up and about in a few days with minimal activity to over strain you. Much healing going your way.


That is wonderful news in your family. Sounds like some supernatural healing taking place. The power of prayer can be such a wonderful thing.

May you both continued to be lifted up in prayer.

God Bless!!


Robin said...

So nice to come in here and see all the good news . . .prayers answered.

This story is posted to Drudge this morning:


Apparently, after 10 years of US occupation in Afghanistan, not a single Christian Church remains anywhere in that country. So indeed, Mrs. C . . .the forgotten Christians of the East appear to be disappearing at an alarming rate :(

gearedup2go said...

Seth, I wish you a good recovery and less pain with each passing day. Know that there is an ebb and flow to the healing process and some days will be better than others.

Paula, I was thinking about your mother yesterday and it's so encouraging to know she is doing exceedingly well in the hands of the Great Physician.

gearedup2go said...

moon bat signal to shine over Capitol Hill at 9 am

Dutch Treat said...

Paula- Seth: Nice to hear some good news for a change. Will continue to pray that everything goes well.

Waterer said...

Please pray for Joyce an long suffering cancer patientwho is nearing death without the Lord. Very bitter and resentful and in agony. Embittered estrangement from her family. Please pray for a breakthrough in these final days.
Was grateful to hear of Paula's Mom's recovery and Seth's. Hope WV's Dad is well soon and the sister who asked for our help in stopping smoking through prayer is seeing some relief too.

Mrs. C said...

Green Light Israel?
Ok...my goodness the plot is thickening.
First we have the breaking news that a plot by Iran (no surprise) was uncovered, to destroy the Saudi Embassy, and possibly the Israeli Embassy in DC. In addition, they were to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador to the U.S.
Hmmm...have had one of these guys in custody for two day, and just when Holder,obummer's laky, is served with a subpoena.
The other "plotter", of course is on the loose in the world (most likely back to Iran).
So, we have Iran sending their killers, through where ?MEXICO! Oh, WHAT A SURPRISE! and how many more of them are already HERE! On top of that, Iran very cleverly sent an Iranian, who has become a naturalized U.S. Citizen. Hmmm...as the WORLD knows how weak the obummer admin is, they chose a naturalized U.S. citizen, because should he be caught, he would have to go to through the U.S. court system. Heck, Im sure the ACLU is breaking down the door to represent this guy! Im sure the obummer administration will recommend "group therapy", after all, its all the "U.S.'s fault" that the "world hates us". (roll eyes)
At the same time as Holder makes this intentionally delayed announcement of the captured "plotters", we have news that Israel has reached a deal with Hamas to release captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit within a week, in exchange for a thousand palestinian prisoners release.
This is very, very significant. Once this soldier is returned, there are no more bargaining chips for Hamas, and Israel is free to really go after Hamas with great force. 1000 palestinian terrorist prisoners return to the false paly land, and Israel will either take them out in a war, or individually.
Green light? Iran has now been proven (this is new the blinded liberals) to want the destruction of the U.S. and has brought their evil to our shores.
After all, obummer does only what he perceives is good for him, and him only as most sociopaths ! The current WH occupier, is left so ignorant in his own conceit and arrogance, he may well now turn a blind eye to Israel’s plans to go after Iran. Just his style to let someone else take a risk, as most cowards do, and it will rid him of the Iranian problem that he now has to explain why they are within out shores and theres gonna be some answer'n to do for that now exposed fact...
Hold on Brothers and Sisters...things may just be about to get even more interesting!
God Bless!

Mrs. C said...

Brother Seth, :)
Praise God for your surgury going well, and Praying for a speedy recovery for you!

Sister Paula, :)
WOW! What a miracle for your Mom! Praying for His Peace with her, and your family,and a quick healy for her!

Brother WV, :)
Lifting your Dad up in Prayer!

Waterer, Will lift Joyce up in Prayer that the she forgives, seeks the Lord, and accepts Him as her Savior!

WVBORN56 said...

Thanks for the prayers guys. Dad's leg is improving. He was dischared today from the hospital and will continue oral antibiotic meds at home. This will be easier to manage at home not having to shuttle mom back and forth each day.

I'm doing the devo tonight at our church governing board meeting at 7pm and I am doing it on our blessed hope...please pray for me that the Lord is glorified and He gets His message out

Waterer said...

1Peter 2

13 Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme; 14 or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well. 15 For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 16 as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Romans 13
1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the [powers] that be are ordained of God. 2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ordinance of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same: 4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. 6 For this cause ye pay tribute also; for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

gearedup2go said...

WV, praying for you and rejoicing in the discharge of your father.

I thought about your object lesson you presented to your boys as I hiked the trails shrouded in the colors of fall. I have to think that Christ would have enjoyed mountain biking in his day.

Waterer said...

Dear Mrs. C.
Thank you for the C. Glick article. ANd the later news update.
I am not disagreeing with you that we are weak as a country now from our leadership down. BUT I think we should not casually call our President names. Nor do I think we should mock ( palys) when we have
Christian Bros and sisters among those people too. If we mean Hamas etc then I think their names should be used. I know the arguments for Israel vs Palestine and I side with Israel but ONLY because of God's call and the work He is still going to do through the Jewish people.
I was struck by the context of the Scriptures I quoted above because
surely Rome was FAR from godly and incredibly anit Jewish. They had already exiled them proir to this letter to the Romans. Or Peter honoring authority as from the Lord. He would die at ROmes hands. WHich king could they have meant desreved HONOR??? Herod?? Pilate ( governor) The Emperor? I think they meant the Lord who rules through the fallen and broken leadership in our world. But their point is well made. The Plotters were caught and we should be filled with thanksgiving in spite of political jockeying.

I posted a few back a request that we not get political in a "Lets discuss our favorites kind of way or disparaging of our leaders. We have JOb to do to be salty but light filled, cautious with our words and obdient to Christ.
He took all that dishonor for us without a word of resentment. Even to Pilate, You would have no authority if it were not given from above.
I would love to see some discussion of how we live this out in a darkening atmosphere. But our Older Brother will show us the way.

My deepest concern is that we don't mix our opinions with the Gospel making this place a fellowship of what we hate rather than the One we worship.

Paula said...

"At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.” He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’” (Luke 13:31-32)"

Some observations and opinions:

1-- Jesus clearly called Herod an unflattering name, and we all know he called the Jewish leaders many names as well. Paul and Peter did too, sometimes in the crudest of terms.

2-- In our representative republic, we elect leaders that are supposed to be accountable to us. They are to uphold the Constitution, and if they don't, the people have the right and responsibility to oust them. That is, they are not over us; we are over them.

3-- The current occupier of the White House is currently in contempt of court and in violation of the War Powers Act, among other things, and can easily be considered a traitor. It would be sinful to respect a traitor.

4-- I think we should let each one speak as they choose and leave the policing to the blog owner.

Anonymous said...

"The reversal of Zapatero in international politics and economy (already anticipated since Javier Solana assumed the role of counselor near the palace of La Moncloa) has been spectacular."

* * *




* * *





Thanks to Adamantine for link.

Waterer said...

YOur points are well taken.
But bear with me a minute.
Our call was not the same as John the Baptist. He was the last OT Prophet yet least in the Kingdom of which we are ambassadors.
You have a right to vote as you wish. But if we lobby here for our favorites, the ones the Lord may bring who came to find Christ will miss Him.
Name calling is not respectful .
Period. If we say to each other that we have the right to be jaded and allow our speech to show that then the message we are really here to give will be tainted.
I am NOT saying agree with the President. You are right we have a representativer Gov't. But , again for the sake of discussion ( not argument)consider the call on Christians in Egypt right now. They peacefully demonstrated and they are crying out against the terrible thing their Gov't has done. We stand with them. But on this world wide web we don't understand all the customs of men well enough to just let loose calling people names.Do we?
What did you think of the Scriptures from Romans and 1 Pet?

On Scott, I think he allows and welcomes discussion with Scripture and respect. I hope I am showing both though I cannot type worth beans.
I appreciate your viewpoint and feel some of the same angst that you do. I feel the same way about our weak policies at play today I just think we should remember that it is like we are at Starbucks and an unbeliever whose ears were perked up when we talked about the endtimes signs suddenly hears us upbraiding soemone they may still support.
BOOm. Their ears are shut and hard. We seem to be just what they thought about those fundy right wingers. They think we are hate filled. We are NOT but we can't let our language compromise our call to the Gospel.

Caver said...

Praying for Obummer's failure. This man is a fraud, is violating the constitution he swore to uphold, and is...in my opinion...a traitor worthy of the firing squad if found guilty by a jury of his peers. This man is making a mockery of the Constitution which some of us took an oath to defend and protect.

This from a Joseph Farah commentary a while ago.

"...Many American Christians believe, as an article of faith, that we are to pray for the success of our leaders.

It has become a sort of conventional wisdom among soft-minded believers. The biblical proof-text for this misguided way of thinking is Romans 13:1-4:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

"Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

"For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

What could be more clear-cut? At face value, it would seem the Bible is telling us government is a God-ordained good and that we are not to resist its terrors.

Many a coward has been bolstered in his conviction against challenging tyranny by not reading too deeply into the Scriptures. Yet, nowhere does the Bible ever suggest evil rulers are to be obeyed. When the rule of men conflicts with the commands of God, the Bible leaves no doubt about where we should stand.

That's why I do not hesitate today in calling on godly Americans to pray that Barack Hussein Obama fails in his efforts to change our country from one anchored on self-governance and constitutional republicanism to one based on the raw and unlimited power of the central state.

It would be folly to pray for his success in such an evil campaign.

I want Obama to fail because his agenda is 100 percent at odds with God's. Pretending it is not simply makes a mockery of God's straightforward Commandments..."

Read more: Pray Obama fails http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=86469#ixzz1aWLbUKKF

Caver said...


Instead, I uphold the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:14: "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." And I take warning from Isaiah 9:16: "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."

This is an important distinction, not a semantic one.

Nowhere in the Bible does it teach us to obey evil rulers. Nowhere.

This is a time for principled biblical resistance, not phony Christian appeasement.

Mrs. C said...

Dear Waterer, :)
Forgive me, but I must respectfully disagree. It is wonderful, that we live in a free nation, where we can disagree, and are free to express ourselves in words, as we desire to. Is the current WH occupier even legally a President? The names I refer to this flagrant imposter of a President, are said out of complete disgust for the evil this man represents, and has opened up in this nation.
He and his minions are destroying this nation and that is fact. We are to not sit silently, but rather to call evil as it is, evil. In all my years of studying Gods Prophetic Word, did I ever imagine we would be here to witness a prototype of the ac, and we are seeing this in this person.
Interesting that you select the “palys” reference, when there are “Christian” Brothers and Sisters living in countries around the world in nations that are referred to in a negative way, and that is acceptable? Forgive me, do you understand the historical facts of the ME history? Do you understand that there never was a “palestine” ,there never has been? “palestine” is a lie, right from the pit of ---. As far as “Christian” Brothers and Sisters living there, do you understand what they actually believe in? I have seen many, that actually believe in the lie of “palestine”. There are many different “Christians” in the world, just as God said it would be in these last days. They are many “Christians” that are being led astray, either by willful ignorance, or by ignoring Gods Word.
Ignoring evil, is exactly how the Nazis came to power! How many “Christians” ignored the Nazi’s imposed blatant suffering and horrendous killing of not only the Jewish People, but many other ethnic and disabled groups of people ,in Germany and the nations they occupied! Would God command us to Pray for Hitler while we watch innocents dragged away to their deaths! Would God consider us to be obedient to Him, if we did nothing to help in a situation like that? No He would not. If you go by the idea that we are to honor and Pray for “leaders” “government”, then if these “leaders”or “government” were to require us to do evil, then are we to comply with their request? Absolutely not.
Forgive me, this is not “political”, this is about evil at the helm of our nation! I don’t care what political party anyone is affiliated with, there is plenty of evil going around. We are not to stick our heads in the sand, and ignore it! That is what the “Christians” did in Germany! In years past, the attitude was “whatever” with political leaders etc.. But it is different now, we are literally on the brink with this nation.We are to be bold in Him, and speak out. Is all this part of Gods Plan?, you betcha! And it will happen has He allows. The test for us is whether we turn a blind eye to the evil all around us and do nothing, say nothing, or do we fight for the Truth to be defended and heard until the day He comes for us…

In His Love, God Bless!

Paula said...


I understand what you're saying. But over and over I've seen how this plays out, and it is counter-productive in the long run. Typically, an unbeliever joins a Christian message board. They are treated kindly. Then the unbeliever gets nasty. Some believers stand tough and call out the game being played, but others are so afraid of ruining a witness that they make it even worse by cannibalizing their own kind. And this is what the unbeliever came for: to watch Christians devour each other instead of remembering who lit the fuse. Christians will throw each other under the bus yet incredibly think this is a better witness than Christians standing tough! In reality, many unbelievers despise us for this very thing: not having enough conviction or passion about our own faith to get indignant when insulted.

Make no mistake: being nice to the Marxist in chief makes a very bad witness, because there is apparently nothing we will stand for. We show by our actions that we are willing to sacrifice our children on the altar of "niceness". We show that we are weak and lack conviction. We show that because we fail to strongly oppose violations of our rights, we are doormats asking to be walked on. As Jesus said to one of the churches of Revelation, he is nauseated by lack of passion ("neither hot nor cold").

We cannot live in the paranoid fear that we might offend someone. I don't think any of us encourages a foul mouth or indecency or the kind of vile hate speech spewed continually by the left. But neither can we be gagged and bound by the fear of offense. Let each of us monitor our own speech, and if we truly are concerned about a bad witness, offer advice privately so the unbelievers don't see us as divided and bickering and hypercritical. Personally, "obummer" is very, very mild by any standard; you should see what most people call him.

I'm not sure what the point is about John the Baptist. All I know is that we are to follow the examples of Jesus, Paul, and the other foundations and pillars of the faith. A good shepherd uses the staff both for rescuing lost sheep and beating off wolves; a shepherd who either won't nurture the sheep or protect them by getting nasty with the wolves is a fake and a hired hand.

People will find fault in us no matter what we do. So again, let us each do what we are convicted is right and reasonable, and only criticize in private if we must.

Caver said...

Back to your regularly scheduled insanity.

The announcment of the Iran terror plot may really get the pot turned to a fast boil. Do you think the Saudis will provide a little "assist" if and when Israel decided to take out a couple Iranian locations. Shuchks, at this point I'd be surprised if they don't send up a few AWACS and refueling tankers.

And do we think the release of this info the day after Holder got a subpoena from the Congress for Fast and Furious was accidental timing? Considering we've been holding the suspect for a couple of weeks now.

Can't imagine Hamas making a deal with their one trump card...the Israeli hostage...right at this point in time unless they felt it was now or never to get their 1000 prisoners back. Somehow, I just wouldn't want to be their life insurance company right now. So Bibi held off making this deal since coming into office..wonder if he's got a thought or two going on...a week after finding out about the DC attempt to blow up their embassy.

Gotta wonder about the strained relationship between the Grand Iranian PhoPah and President IWannaBeADinnerJacket right now. Something tells me its a wee bit more strained. I don't think this was a completely informed and joined assignation attempt. Somebody's in hot water. Oh, they did say the attempt was traced back to the elite Iranian Republican Guards...now, who do they answer to....President IWannaBeAHero?

Mrs. C said...

Sister Paula, :)
Perfectly said...
God Bless!

Scott said...

This is an interesting discussion
(first of all - Mrs C - I was going to post that article by Caroline Glick --- I always search the news before logging on to this site and had it bookmarked only to find you had it! Still, I think I may post it.)

Secondly - I was reading about Seth's surgery (BTW - glad to see that thing is out and you are on the road to recovery!) and Robin said it was posted on Drudge, and my first thought was "Seth's surgery was posted on drudge???) LOL....:)

OK back to this other discussion.

I believe political correctness is a trap - and an easy trap to fall into. Secondly, I hear similar arguments regarding the rapture from the post-tribbers, and it goes like this:

You sound too radical when you discuss the rapture. If it comes after or during the second coming its easier for people to understand and it doesn't make you 'appear' too radical. It will make witnessing easier.

The only problem is - it wouldn't be the truth: to hide behind something else which may be easier for the non-believer to swallow. In fact, it is my belief that many pastors don't embrace prophecy for that very reason.

Jesus called out the Pharisees as "hypocrites", "vipers", "snakes", He called out the two men leaving Jerusalem to Emmaus as "foolish", and he called the money changers at the temple for being robbers and theives.

Why didn't Jesus fear that he could lose His witness for making such remarks? after all, people who were non-believers may have heard him and been "turned off' at His name calling.

I don't believe that our call is to be politically correct and "in the world" of political correctness for the vague notion of how we may sound to nnon-believers

I believe this is the slippery slope that the Presby Church is engaged in when they withdraw their funding for Israel (doesn't this make a better witness to non-believers who don't support Israel?), or allow Gay pastors (doesn't NOT allowing gay pastors turn people off - because by not allowing gay pastors, we may come across as "fundy" or whatever the term is- and if that happens we may lose our witness).

No. Jesus didn't mince words in the face of Evil, Elijah certainly didn't mince words in the face of evil w hen he confronted Ahab, John the Baptist didn't with Herod and on and on it goes.

I just believe once we start looking over our shoulder at how we may come across (lets call it what it is - Political Correctness) under the premise of "making a better witness" - and watering down the truth, in the face of evil - well, I think thats a VERY slippery slope

Waterer said...

Dear Cavers and Paula,

SOft minded though I may be I am seeking to have the mind of Christ in this too.
I am not without conviction about my hopes for our country to be healthy and a place of freedom so that Christ can continue to be proclaimed here. That is the basis for Paul encouraging us to pray for leaders. NOT because we support them personally or politically but because freedom is at stake for the message of ultimate salvation.When I pray for the President it is NOT for the success of his agenda. It is for the success of God's agenda. It is the same in praying for leaders in other places.When I mentioned John the Baptist ( He also called Herod names) I was making a distinction between the call of the righteous OT prophet and the NT ambassador for Christ Jesus.The latter had the call to return people to the righteousness of God or to call out behaviours and practices that dishonored the Lord. John the Baptist called out Herod because he was supposed to be leading the Jews under God ,( though he was evil). Her stole his bros. wife and ultimately killed both John and Jesus.Jesus called him a fox . Yes. But in this time of Gospel sharing, a sacrificial and gracious time of favor we have been charged to a very specific call. We are in danger to call anyone a fool. We are in danger for saying in our hearts, Thank God I am not a sinner like that guy.We are to be aware of hypocrisy that puffs us up. I am NOT suggesting that you do not speak about what is upsetting about what you see going on. I am saying that I think it would be better heard and understood if it were spoken in the first person. " I think President Obama is acting unwisely in such and sucha away. Or I think this is an evil choice that I completely abhor. The obummer remark ( mild as you hear it) has a smear in it that smears everyone who voted for him too. I felt this way when the left called Pres. Bush "w".Or Nixon Tricky DIck or CLinton bubba.
It is a cultural shorthand dismissing people that are responsible to God for our freedom.
On the Paly thing it has the same smear thing attached. It isn't saying I don't think this group has a right to the land. It says I don't think this group that I hate deserves the land. To me that is entirely beside the point. I'm speaking of the hating.
When I used the Starbucks analogy I did not mean we should be watered down or less CHristian in our sharing. Far from it!I'm not saying don't mention Christ. I'm saying I would hope that we speak what we think but without smear and sarcasm

Paula said...


I don't see any problem with the low-key name-calling. I don't take offense when someone says ugly things about conservatives, I just show them how their words sound when the victim is someone they like. I know also that often people don't want Christians around because we're so easily offended and they can't relax.

But I still say that Jesus et al are examples for us too, not just the OT prophets-- otherwise we're arguing that we should be meaner to our own people!

We are salt and light, things that either season or expose. If we're too bland or hide under shades we are not engaging the culture and have little hope of reaching them.

I gave up long ago trying to speak indirectly; it seems fake and manipulative to me. I can't breathe in an atmosphere where I have to always worry about how to word things and water them down till nobody can tell what I'm really saying. I'm as diplomatic as I can be, and would prefer open name-calling over the sugar-coated variety. I know I fall short in forgetting to also pray for my enemies, but at the same time, I feel there is something more sincere about directness.

But I know I can never live up to many people's expectations or learn the proper language, so I just try to be the best "me" I can be. And I hope someday that other believers will focus more on their own words instead of everyone else's. We all mean well.

DrNofog said...

"Politics" and "Religion" are identities!

Some of the most effective lies of Satan to silence Christians and get them to drop out of "politics" are: "You shouldn't discuss politics or religion", "You can't mix politics and religion", and "You can't legislate morality".

America would not have come into existence if our Founding Fathers had believed this unbiblical tripe that distorts the meaning of "politics". The laws against murder, theft, rape, etc. in every nation ARE legislated morality as a matter of public policy!!!

"The Law", written over 150yrs ago by Fredrick Bastiat, is an excellent, easy to read pamphlet that shows the dilemma posed to the righteous when there are immoral laws and legalized plunder instituted by governments.

I am not a "Dominionist" nor a "militant Christian", but I do know what the Word say about our duty.

In Luke 19:11-27 there can be no doubt that Jesus is speaking of Himself in this parable "...because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come."

Now this Greek word for "occupy" is not like when we receive junk mail addressed to "Occupant" like some couch-potato that takes up space in a house, but rather, it is a classical Greek military term to be "in control".

Matthew 25:14-30 is parallel: 14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man traveling into a far country, who called his own servants, and "delivered unto them his goods" clearly means that He has put the things of His Kingdom in our charge.

DrNofog said...

Now contrast His servants and their duty to be in charge with the reactions of the "citizens" of this world and their fate:

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us..."

"...27 But those mine enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me."

"Politeuma" ---> In Philippians 3:20 the King James Version says: For our "conversation" is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. "Conversation" in old English doesn't mean our "yakkity-yak", "talk-is-cheap", but rather our "manner of living", as it is correctly translated in other versions [ie. a man's word is his bond and honor], and it is also correctly translated "Citizenship" in other versions. It is the Greek word "politeuma" from which we get "policy, politics, metropolis", and other combinations.

So the daily choices that we make, that is; the "policies" that we, as Christians, are to "govern" our lives by are from the Kingdom that we, as ambassadors, are to represent to citizens of this world.

Brannon Howse uses the term "worldview" and has effectively described the "religion" of the world.

Consider this: Even Atheists, who 'claim they have no 'religion', have some kind of philosophical outlook, some moral reasonings, some "policies" of what they consider should be a standard of "right" or "wrong" that they hold high in this world...
This is their politics, this is their moral religion!

Our failings here in America is that we have bought the lie and left our charge in the hands of unbelievers against the wise counsel of our Founding Father, against the Word of God in Roman 13, and against the laws of our country with regard to our duties as Citizens:

"It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error."
- American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382

[Updated from Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:12:00 PM CDT]

Waterer said...

I am going to sleep sad for this discussion. I feel beat up.
I felt offended and I spoke it respectfully and with Scrioture. None of the Scripture or the historical context around it was discussed .Honor all men and honor the king were written in times we haven't come close to seeing in our country.Closer than ever before perhaps..though we have had some terrible times before.But not like what peter and Paul were seeing.
I never suggested political correctness in my discussion. I can't abide lukewarmness in loving Christ anymore than any of you can.
I certainly will be far more reluctant to speak here.
I didn't expect this from you all.
I will spend some time praying over this.Wow.

Scott said...

Gosh, I hate to hear that - I certainly didn't intend to come across as disrespectful by any means.

We should be able to discuss differences in opinion - there will be times where we don't always disagree.

I recall disagreeing with Mrs C on several things in the past, and we state our opinions and move on.

Being honest with each other and offering differences in opinion is part of being brothers and sisters in Christ.

In fact, my biological brother is probably more "real" and honest with me than anybody in this world, and often it includes his telling me things that I don't necessarily want to hear, but I always listen to his POV and same with me talking to him.

I honestly didn't see any 'beating up" happening on this thread (I just went back and re-read everything) but what I am seeing is honest disagreements and the basis for such.

We have to be able to have open discussions and state our opinions - anything else (as Paula states above) seems disingenuous and less than honest - to me THAT is insulting.

In fact, I really liked what Paula said above and I'll quote:

"I gave up long ago trying to speak indirectly - it seems fake and manipulative to me...I can't breathe in an atmosphere where I always have to worry about how to word things and water them down till nobody can tell what I am saying"..

That speaks volumes to me.

Waterer - please don;t see this as "beat up" but an honest discussion with folks stating their disagreements.

Do you expect otherwise?

Scott said...

One more thing...I had to have a discussion with someone at my daughters school - and I started the discussion by saying that it was going to be a tough, difficult discussion and I was going to say some things that he didn't want to hear.

But before getting into the subject matter, I felt compelled to say the following:

"Only with a brother or sister in Christ would I have such an open, honest discussion. The reason is because I feel that I OWE that level of honesty to such a brother. Anything else would be LESS than honest, and I simply cannot engage in dishonesty with a brother. It is ONLY in the spirit of LOVE that I can feel comfortable enough to HAVE such a 'difficult'. honest discussion. "

When at work, or in an environment where you have to 'perform" you don;t let your true feelings or statements come out - and in a way yoy are being less than honest.

I feel that we OWE our brothers and sisters this degree of honesty.

Anything less is deceptive and as Paula stated less than sincere.

That is what the world does, and I think we are can rise above what the world does, and that involves honesty and allowing open discussions even if they are difficult at times.

Waterer said...

Paula and Dr.nofog,
Thank you for your discussion. They posted after my pity party.
There is a piece of this that is a sticky wicket simply because our NT examples are so without direct application to a people living under a representative Gov't. Perhaps because of interpretations of laws at that time,Paul in Jerusalem was safer under Rome than
under the Jews; as was Jesus for that matter.The examples of Prophets speaking to Power were a different thing. SOmetimes for specific messages and Sometimes Divine Judgment. We have some of those messages too but we don't get to speak them to the POWER in the way they did. Perhaps that is why there is so much bottled up angst
that pours out in political
discussions. We say things to one another that we really would like to speak to the powers that be.
On a broader note, I was wondering about the way in which we follow the heavenly policies. I am not
criticizing but trying to get the Lord's direction .. But when the EgyptianChristians went to march, albeit peacefully, they were following the pattern that began the Arab Spring. They were hoping for power by the uniting of their voices behind the cause. A good cause. But what if they had not followed that pattern but instead have done an Esther thing. Called for fasting and prayer,gone with strength of need to the only righteous Judge and then to the powers that be. WOuld the outcome have been different?Probably this will be a pattern for their next move.
I am wondering about this because that Heavenly Kingdom has far more righteousness in it than I have ever seen. My hopes are far less pure than they should be. My hopes for leadership have been continually disappointed both in country and church.Like the example of the Egyptain Christians I think we sometimes as Christians follow the way the world does politics rather than a Heavenly policy.My soul like yours has been harrassed under what I see in the world around me. I am astounded at my own selfishness
and sinful insulated life.
Added to this is peacemaker tendencies of the second child.I am uncomfortable with hatred when I don't understand it's source or focus.
It is late and I will leave this
topic now to heaven.
In His MERCY,kr

Diane said...

Waterer , I think I see your point of view. I agree with your point about the conversation at the coffeeshop, and have observed a similar situation. I know that we cannot convince an unbeliever of anything, until his eyes are opened by the Holy Spirit. I think our jobs are to "lift Jesus higher". He said if He is lifted up, He will draw all men to Himself. In the end, that is what matters and a Bibical world view colors politics and just everything. None of us agree on all matters . Soon politics and all will fade, in the light of Eternity. Diane

Caver said...

Waterer, dear Sis, I'm sorry you took it that way and my post was certainly not intended to "put down", insult, or hurt. In fact, several of the terms you identified were part of the quote from the Joseph Farah commentary.

But, as several have pointed out already, as Brothers and Sisters, we should be able to speak and communicate more directly and frankly with each other than in the world. We're supposed to understand and we're supposed to be "salt". Salt, not only preserves but enhances and sometimes changes the flavor.

Several times I have a number of folk take strong disagreement with my stated POV. It was easy to get offended and take it personally but on reflection it was said in love and as I would expect someone convicted in that position. I went back and researched the scriptures and had to change my POV, they were right. That, to me, is what is expected of us.

You are loved and valued here.

Paula said...


I fully understand feeling ganged-up on and I'm sure it was nobody's intention to do so. And in this case, the alleged harsh words weren't even being said about anyone here.

But please understand that it feels demeaning and insensitive when adult Christians are lectured in public by other adult Christians on their personal opinion of what is proper speech. I've lost track of the number of places online that I've been banned from because I couldn't express myself in a manner other believers would tolerate. To be publicly reprimanded in front of unbelievers is like being stripped and beaten in front of them. They laugh at how Christians treat each other and control each other.

It's fine and commendable to have personal convictions about such things. But try and see how this looks from the perspective of those who have tried their best to be diplomatic but are told it's never good enough. It makes us want to give up and stop talking at all, which is exactly what Satan would want. And in fact, I refuse to join any more "Christian" message boards because of this.

I've been called some pretty vile things, often by professing Christians, and in front of unbelievers. But that doesn't cut anywhere near as deep as when my best efforts are judged to be inadequate and my carefully-chosen words are considered garbage. My personal conviction that clarity is better than obfuscation is seen as a terrible sin by many other Christians, so I simply walk away from those who won't allow me my opinion and move on.

There really are times when bluntness and crudity can actually be a good witness, as Paul demonstrated when talking to the Galatians (IIRC) about legalizers who should "cut the whole thing off". He said he was an example for all of us to follow, not just some, so this is indeed scriptural.

If there is any different standard at all between leaders and followers, it is that the leaders are to be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one. So if the argument against bluntness is that only leaders are allowed to do it, then they are actually being held to a lower standard. If our role models in scripture can call people dogs and vipers, but we cannot, then it is we who are held to the higher standard.

Again, it is great to have personal convictions. But everyone has them and should be allowed to live by their own rather than someone else's. The place for training young believers about proper Christian behavior is in discipleship on a personal level and in private; it seems arrogant IMHO for people to presume a leadership capacity over me by setting themselves up as my teacher. I know this was not your intent; it rarely is. But the reality is that this teacher/student relationship is presumed when one adult Christian attempts to censor the speech of another.

Just my opinion. ;-)

GG said...

Hi Waterer~

I hope all is well with you this morning. I prayed about this before I went to bed. I had something's posted and am glad I just hit the delete button and turned it over in prayer. I could and can see where you are coming from. I think your intentions were right where they were supposed to be for a variety of reasons. I do believe you spoke in love throughout.

I do agree with some of the other posts here as well because we don't know the heart of the person and the intention when someone writes something on any given day. The internet is not personal as we all know and it can sound cold and callous when we may be operating in a free flowing spirit of love while typing that never comes across. For this reason alone I always try to choose my words carefully. That is just my preference.

Knowing me and my personality the old self often spoke without thinking. Someone at church once pointed out something that struck me hard and really made me do a turnabout in my mere flipping of words around the world. I was speaking first to what would make me feel better, not giving what would I be saying or how would I be saying this if I was standing right there in that moment before God.

Would he be pleased and find my tone, inflection, intention cute? Would he want me taking a verbal jab at his child instead of having a civil and honest discussion without name calling? Is it right to go around and poke sticks in other peoples cages so to speak, prodding them to heated discussions? Would I want to step out my door on any given day and simply allow someone to come up to me freewheeling words that are deemed hurtful? Is it acceptable in life period? How do I handle that? What benefit does this have for God? It's all about accountability.

As I read all these posts I can feel the love. Believe me on some days, some of these posts I found disgusting, just to be honest. Depending on how the person took things that day, things can snowball right out of control. That is why I believe God has put some basic guidelines to living in place to prevent disasters with our tongues. In fun or not, I believe they were designed to prevent further destruction of his spirit which lies in each of us.

GG said...

I have so much respect for someone who can respond in love. That shows restraint as well as good character in my eyes. We all can get our point across without locker room banter in a towel snapping mode or walking around snarky in our speaking. It prevents someone like me from my old self thinking it's OK and then I go back to a level of disrespect because it doesn't honor the Lord, which is the bottom line right? Luckily, the people here are so loving and kind and mean nothing but the best for all. We all are human and fall short of the glory of God.

I look at all these men who are in a faceoff with our lives running this country. They are being controlled in their speaking right until they are ready to push that last button. They are reflecting what the military uses called a Code of Conduct. They may not feel like speaking that way but having proper respect and authority for leadership allows a proper chain of things to flow or there would be pure chaos. These men have rules, boundaries and limitations in place no matter how they truly feel. I believe that is what we have been taught about respecting authority. We must respect authority. Can you imagine everyone being able to just go flip words out to a police officer because they thought it was cute? Can one imagine some stranger walking up to you flipping words and actions out because it makes them feel good? Can you imagine someone coming up to your child and doing and saying what they want without any accountability because it makes them feel good? That is why I believe we are to have respect for our leaders even if we don't agree with them. It shows the others around us that we don't have control of our thoughts and actions. Not to be rigid but to prevent further damage from either character assassination or teaching someone else something bad about another person that they may not have thought about. It's almost like gossip in a way. It's almost like being an emotional bully.

Again, not saying anyone here said that or did that. I am merely speaking about the answers I received from prayer. How these thoughts pertain to the situation is dependent on how each individual wishes to engage in life. Again, another military word..Rules Of Engagement. It offers respect, dignity, order but may not be fair.

I will post what scriptures I was led to and give you all a big hug. I wish everyone the best in how they decide to "engage".

God Bless!! Love you all!!


GG said...


tung: Almost invariably for either lashon, or glossa the latter word with the cognates heteroglossos, "of strange tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:21), glossodes, "talkative," English Versions of the Bible "full of tongue" (Sirach 8:3; 9:18), glossotomeo, "to cut out the tongue" (2 Maccabees 7:4), diglossos, "double-tongued" (Sirach 5:9; 28:13). In 1 Timothy 3:8, however, "double-tongued" is for dilogos, literally, "two-worded." Where "tongue" in the King James Version translates dialektos (Acts 1:19; Acts 2:8; Acts 21:40; Acts 22:2; Acts 26:14), the Revised Version (British and American) has "language," while for the King James Version "in the Hebrew tongue" in John 5:2 Revelation 9:11; Revelation 16:16 (Hebraisti) the Revised Version (British and American) has simply "in Hebrew." In addition, in the Old Testament and Apocrypha, the King James Version uses "to hold one's tongue" as a translation for various verbs meaning "to be silent"; the Revised Version (British and American) in the Old Testament writes "to hold one's peace" and in the Apocrypha "to be silent," except in Sirach 32:8, where the King James Version is retained (siopao).

The various uses of "tongue" in English are all possible also for lashon and glossa, whether as the physical organ (Exodus 11:7 Mark 7:33, etc.) or as meaning "language" (Genesis 10:5 Acts 2:4, etc.) or as describing anything shaped like a tongue (Isaiah 11:15 Acts 2:3, etc.). In addition, both words, especially lashon appear in a wider range of meanings than can be taken by "tongue" in modern English. So the tongue appears as the specific organ of speech, where we should prefer "mouth" or "lips" (Exodus 4:10 Psalm 71:24; Psalm 78:36 Proverbs 16:1 Philippians 2:11, etc.), and hence, "tongue" is used figuratively for the words uttered (Job 6:30 Psalm 139:4 1 John 3:18, etc.). So the tongue can be said to have moral qualities (Psalm 109:2 Proverbs 15:4, etc.) or to be "glad" (Acts 2:26); to "love with the tongue" (1 John 3:18) is to love in word only, and to be "double-tongued" (Sirach 5:9; 28:13:00; 1 Timothy 3:8 is to be a liar. A further expansion of this figurative use has produced expressions that sound slightly bizarre in English, although their meaning is clear enough: e.g., "Who have whet their tongue like a sword" (Psalm 64:3); "His tongue is as a devouring fire" (Isaiah 30:27); "My tongue is the pen of a ready writer" (Psalm 45:1), and, especially, "Their tongue walketh through the earth" (Psalm 73:9).

In Job 20:12, "Though wickedness be sweet in his mouth, though he hide it under his tongue," the figure is that of an uncultured man rolling a choice morsel around in his mouth so as to extract the utmost flavor. In Psalm 10:7; Psalm 66:17 (Revised Version margin), however "under the tongue" means "in readiness to utter," while in Songs 4:11, "Honey and milk are under thy tongue," the pleasure of a caress is described. To "divide their tongue" (Psalm 55:9) is to visit on offenders the punishment of Babel.

GG said...

Hebrews 4:12-16

12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Jesus the Great High Priest
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,e Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Psalm 64:3
Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:

James 3:8
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

James 1:19-21
Why, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

Proverbs 21:23
Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps his soul from troubles.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace to the hearers.

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain

James 2:12
So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

GG said...

ed-i-fi-ka'-shun, ed'-i-fi:

The Greek words oikodomeo, "to build," oikodome, "the act of building," are used both literally and figuratively in the New Testament; "edify," "edifying," "edification," are the translation of the King James Version in some 20 passages, all in the figurative sense of the promotion of growth in Christian character. the Revised Version (British and American) in 2 Corinthians 10:8; 2 Corinthians 13:10 Ephesians 4:12, 16 1 Thessalonians 5:11 renders "build up," "building up," making the force of the figure clearer to the English reader. In 1 Timothy 1:4 the Greek text followed by the Revised Version (British and American) has oikonomia, "dispensation," instead of oikodomia, "edifying" (the King James Version).

2 Corinthians 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edification

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word go out of your mouth, but if there be any good one for needful edification, that it may give grace to those that hear it.

2 Corinthians 13:10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Thus ye also, since ye are desirous of spirits, seek that ye may abound for the edification of the assembly.

Romans 14:19 So then, let us follow after things which make for peace, and things by which we may build one another up

Robin said...

Would God have wanted witnesses to the holocaust to remain idle and silent? PolPot? Baby Doc Duvalier?

We must be willing to stand up against tyranny. And Americans have a moral obligation to defend our freedoms against assault lest we lose our divine foundation. More often than not, those who find political discussion distasteful, have played a role in electing/supporting that which is being discussed and are being convicted.

GG said...

Yes Robin, I agree with what your saying in a way. We can get to the same destination without throwing land mines along the way in life. We are to hold these evil people, places and things accountable. You betcha. We also do not have to engage un further destruction once we have shined the light on the situation at hand.

It moves the intent from awareness to justification towards harm. I am not going to stick around in the devils play land in life :). I will do my part lovingly, openly, respectfully and then separate from those things which are not of God. Otherwise we can create reasons all day long as to why it's ok not to operate in the spirit of the Lord. I do agree we are to have limits. Destroying someone's character is not beneficial to the desired outcome IMHO.

Have a blessed day!


Paula said...

Character can be more effectively destroyed with sugar-coated subtlety than direct opposition. And there is a wide gap between plays on words/names and vicious slander.

There is a deep irony in disparaging the character of people who disparage the character of people; i.e., why is it wrong to criticize a politician but okay to judge the critics as bad Christians? IMHO, it is more offensive to infer that I am worldly or harming our witness as it is to call the traitor in the White House "obummer".

But again, to emphasize: it is not the place of anyone here to lecture others on their choices of words in public. I advocate letting each one express themselves as they see fit. That means I don't tell you how to talk and you don't tell me how to talk. "To our own master we stand or fall", not to each other's personal convictions.

Mrs. C said...

Sister Paula & Robin,
Very well said...
God Bless

Waterer said...

Dear GG,Paula, Robin and Mrs C.
Thank you for the Scriptures and especially for praying first.
It is convicting to me because I am headstrong and speak without thinking things through first.The rules of engagement thoughts were helpful too.
When I wrote to Mrs C and asked for dialog on a group of verses about how we speak or think we should speak to Gov't I was honestly doing so as a SISTER not as someone denigrating her character!.( I love Mrs. C. Anyone who bakes Choc chip cookies and Apple pie and feeds the squirrels every morning and honors Mr. C, writes like an editorialist and is a scholar of nearly all things has my affection as well as my respect.
I come from a large family with a wide variety of political leanings. (My cousin is a Rep holding a high office in Fl in a Dem stronghold. His sister is a DEm. operative who organized the Denver hullabaloo for the election of Pres. Obama. ( One event I was even more upset over than the response from his speaking in Germany and thousands came out before he was even an official candidate.)Their other sisters orgainzed the rep campaign for their brother.
My great Grandfather was the Dem governor of Fl Broward for whom that famous county is named. My great Grandmother was the Nat. Dem party woman for the state of Fl under FDR.
My Mom is a staunch Dem, I have always voted Rep except for Carter which I later regretted. His faith
in Christ drew me in but the overhaul of Tax system never got to first base.( His big campaign thrust).
In the last 5 or so years the speed of news reporting and the specializing of pundits has made the Political landscape very arresting but also more divided than I can remember. Than my dear Mom can remember. While we argued around the Thanksgiving weekend for years about what the latest situations and political manueverings were the rules of engagement were lax. If My Mom was hosting then we were more careful than usual that our words were at least respectful about the people and events going on. My Dad hated Reagan whom we loved and he was salty mouthed in his football coach way. I'm saying all this to make this point: We were family discussing opposite viewpoints about things we believed were right. But now in the last 5 years,
my Mom is avoiding all discussion because it is so ugly. She does not feel emotionally safe to disagree.
She is not the hostess anymore,
(her place has been moved). So now we draw her out even more carefully and privately. She also thinks that this is a time she has never seen the like of. SHe very much rues her Dem vote. But not her Dem underpinnings. For the first time this year ( after Years of hoping and praying for her depth in understanding God's love for her, she joined a Bible Study. ISAiah!!
SHe has blossomed. More than ever I am tender towards the bruised reed
because I have seen a journey that has cost a family very dearly to become one in Christ.This Thanksgiving there will be discussions, bet on it, but probably more carefully worded. They have to be carefully managed because there are too many things that divide us in this climate of fiancial woes ( 2 are upside dwon on their mortgages)
3 are tea Party supporters, the majority of us are conservative, our kids though are confused. They like so many have been pulled into that CHANGE campaign only to see their futures become more murky.
people in my life who do not yet have a grasp on Christ's deep love and call on their lives.

Waterer said...


SO let me say that first I agree that Scott is the Host and if he likes the rough and tumble exchange
of ideas without rules of engagement then I will leave those opinions about names to him.

I am sorry that my being offended and speaking it has offended several ( or more) of you.
Please see that I see YOU as family.
I see us as a HOLY Priesthood.
I see our watching for Jesus when so many are asleep as a gift. A precious gift.

I believe that our words matter and that we will have to give an account of them. I was cautioning and I am not sorry for that.

I see that the ways of speaking we have are going to divide us from time to time. We have some Simon the zealots here and some Apollos.

I wanted my Mom to be able to come to this site and others like her.
I don't think that is a good idea now.

I pray for us to rest and let this go for now.I have more studying and reading to do to be useful in places like this. I wish I could have you over for tea on my front porch and hear your testimonies. Now I can rejoice in that thought !

Paula said...


I know you didn't mean to attack anyone. I also know that bruised reeds need special care.

But on the other hand, often the bruised reed is not the one speaking soft words.

I tried to convey the damage I and others have sustained by well-meaning brothers and sisters in Christ who didn't realize they were stabbing us in the back and making us afraid to speak. As I tried to say, most Christian boards will not have me; I am afraid to post there because I will be chastised publicly for every little thing I say. They chased me out with their "softness".

What I've been trying to do is explain that this door swings both ways; it is as damaging, however unintentional, to focus on how other Christians express themselves as for those others to bluntly oppose harmful people or teachings. Is the foot to be as delicate and clean as the little finger? I may be a lowly toenail in the Body of Christ, but I won't be told that I am wrong or insensitive when I look and act like a toenail. Especially not in public.

There is a Christian board that I did all the technical work for; they exist and continue because of my knowledge and volunteer work. Yet I cannot post there, because of this identical demand that people's delicate ears might be offended. I am a bull in their china shop and they don't want me around unless the bull is dressed in a tutu and pink slippers. I don't belong in the house I built.

Does anyone care how I feel, or whether I'm afraid to post in a given place? No, because I'm blunt and direct. Blunt people get no sympathy or consideration.

Not every blog can be a china shop. Might I suggest that you start a blog where you can repost what Scott posts but without the comments? I promise not to go there.

watered said...

Get a grip!!!
I do not expect a manicured toenail
or silken LIES!
I have an OPINION too. My sensitivity to the the use of the popular dissing terms is my issue.

I spoke it. I had a right to speak it. I spoke it as respectfully as I
could. You disagree with my opinion. I GET IT.

That it has offended you and made you feel unwelcome or ANYONE unwelcome was the very last thing on my mind.

When we breeze past others thinking our opinions matter more because they are sincere we miss the responsibility piece of being a Family of believers.

I should have stated my offense differently, OBVIOUSLY, because it has caused such negative response.

All of us, leaders and followers have the same expectations of us in terms of salt and grace.
"Let your speech be seasoned with grace that you might know how to RESPOND to one another."Eph.
The grace piece gives us wisdom for our next words.

Apparently my words lacked this grace because I honestly don't know anything else to say about my comments.

This is what I have heard.
We as Christians can be guilty of too many restrictions as well as we can be too outspoken.

I accept the responsibility for my words and I am very sorry that they have added to pain you have felt in other relationships. I think you are a wonderful participant on Scott's blog.

I desire to see more people aware of what is going on in these times and there are a great many sources for what is commonly called news these days. But alot is out of focus.
What Scott has offered , that I particularly appreciate is how these pieces fot in with the signs Jesus gave.
I believe it is a very valuable gift to all of us.
Yes, I think our comments are gifts too.
I am seeing that the deep need we have to be able to discuss what we think without restrictions is in itself going to limit the scope of what the most precious part of this blog is about. HE IS COMING!!!!!!!
Thgat was and is the thrust of my concern yesterday.

Have my comments been irking you for a long time? I did not know this. I do not want to leave but
I want a safe place for the rest of you more than my own comfort.
I will pray about desisting from comments at all. I don't mean this in a pitiful way. I really mean that I want you to have your place without feeling Big self apponted Sister is watching.

What a mess.

Alice said...

GG, I also want to thank you for the wonderful scriptures! They MADE my morning! :)

Waterer, the description of the political landscape of your family is amazing! Thank you for sharing that as it helped me to better understand your perspective on this.

fwiw, I love you all and I can see this issue from BOTH sides. I, like waterer, also pray that this can be let go now.

Paula said...


Remember who started this mess? Not me. I was not the one to take offense at what other said and berate them for saying it. And I have not been continually offended by anyone's past comments; this is all about this post and nothing else. I have been posting in response to the idea that I should speak like someone I'm not. Yet you appear to reserve the right to dictate speech and take HUGE offense at anyone who disagrees.

I have offered to quit this place before, would it help you if I carried that out? Can't I talk either? Playing the victim here isn't going to fly with me; you dish it out as much as anyone.

I'll stay in my own blog if it will make you happy. (See, I'm saying the same thing you are. How does it sound?)

WVBORN56 said...

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Titus 2:13 While we wait for our blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." Amen!


Waterer said...

I have apologized. YOu invited me to leave , start a blog which you would never want to visit..
I am confounded. I was adressing my comments yeterday to Mrs c. Using the Obummer tag.
I have been disagreed with and recognized that I have offended FAR more than she did. WHat else do you want me to say?
tTHe mess was MINE. I was agreeing that you should feel safe here from my criticism. I agreed with you.

What else is needed here to let this rest?

GG said...

Hi Paula~

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I was gone for part of this morning at a Dr.'s appointment :) I am sorry to read in your other experiences you had been previously attacked on other sites by Christians. That is sad and truly uncalled for as representatives of Christ. I can see why that leaves one feeling like they are sugar coating things. It is not right nor fair. I am sorry that has happened to you.

All I can speak from is from my heart. FWIW and if you truly knew me; I could easily have kept up with the rest in words of wits or banter or whatever one wants to call it on my life's road and not keep things in proper perspective, but I am striving daily to represent Kingdom Living, not GG living. I like not following rules all the time, believe me :) But this is about God, his work, so I do it out of love and loyalty to my Savior. It also gives me a chance to witness for him, to represent him, which is a high calling as we all know. Since he took the love, time and compassion to send his only son to die for my sins, that is the least I can do is something kind in return. (Not saying this specific to anyone here, just me.)
When I read on this site that we are here to lift each other up in these days, I thought what a great thing--that is what I simply thought we are getting here the body of Christ. I am OK with Scott choosing other things but I can learn from all of this as well. This discussion was more beneficial than you know :)

It's hard to walk this earth and day in and day out people mistake meekness for weakness. Boy, that gets me but I keep on taking the high road hourly. It's not about sugar coating anything, it's about being part of the solution and not part of the problems in life. It's about pouring out measurements of ourselves and to what shall the return be? It's about adding a more settle spirit in a world of confusion and uncertainty instead of contributing to it. Do you see my heart on this? Niceness is a choice. It's not a weakness. I try think in terms of Hospitality because we see so little of it anymore.

People in other countries would kindly take as much time as needed to help a stranger. They are grateful for much. Not here in America. It's like finding a diamond in the ruff. We are so busy and hurried we can't slow down to a community of love at times. Here in America we are so bankrupt, either financially, morally and even emotionally on some days. We have corruption wreaking around the world and infiltrating our systems daily/hourly at a rapid rate. We do have corrupt leaders, no doubt about this. It's very unfair, but these things must happen as well unless we institute change.

GG said...

In part we should shoulder some of that responsibility. They didn't get there on their own. So we, being human made a bad choice, now we must find a way to offer a solution. It's the built in consequence for having the lovely freedom of choice America so kindly offers. It's easy to stand on the side-lines of life and complain and throw barbs but it takes a true leader, a Godly leader to get in the trenches and make positive changes. We know we don't have one. OK? now what do we do. If we need change at the government level, let's get our conservative Christians together, lift each other up on one another's shoulders and move forth and face the giants. So many unbelievers and believers and now that I am saying this, sit around and just murmur and complain. What is the solution that everyone would like to see? The desired outcome? We have the freedoms to make it happen if we have the time to complain about it right? Not saying personal thoughts and opinions are not warranted but how does this help after all the complaining is done? It just fuels the fire with no solutions. That is what I saw from Waterers posting.

I think this whole discussion went Demo or RepubO, went from the left to the right, and I am one to try to keep my car in my lane down the middle. We are visitors in a fallen world with much work to be done in these last days. Much can be done on the political level but we need to make positive change and quickly to try to offset the wheels that are already in motion. I don't know what it could do but the power of God is amazing to overcome anything if one sets their mind to it.


Lastly, if someone is walking around sugar coating (as you can tell by now that really got to me but that is OK :) then they are being a fake, fraud and phony. If anyone has to impersonate kindness then it's not in their heart and they should stop and reflect on that. Happiness and kindness in a messed up world is a choice. A choice we must choose hourly and daily.

I truly say all this in love and hope no one mistakes Christ like behavior is something to be ashamed of, I will stand for that call and stand alone if necessary.

Have a blessed day! I love you all the same!!


Caver said...

Guys....I think it time we all step away from the keyboard, take a few deep breaths, take our pulse, and consult the Lord.

Much has been said. Air has been cleared. We each know where everyone else stands. There are differences....and there always will be. The good Lord made each of us differently. We rejoice in that fact.

I'm sure we each realize there are tendencies and sensitivities here. There always are...and rightly so. Each of us is off the milk and mature in our Walk. Each is both a teacher and a student...and never the same in all things...and none of us in some things.

I've thought about this all morning and firmly believe we all need to take a step back, inhale a deep breath, and ease the hammer back into the "locked and safety" position.

Love each and every one of ya!

Scott said...

Let me just made a couple of comments here (if anybody is still around at this point)...

For what its worth:

I don't really see my role as "moderating" or being a "moderator".

I'm all about free-open exchange, and I would never want to get into a position of telling people what they can and cannot say here (with certain obvious exceptions - which are extremely rare).

If I were to begin censoring or taking sides or telling people what they could or could not say - that would place me in a "paternalistic" role, and that is something that makes me VERY uncomfortable (who am I to do that anyway?).

Additionally, I am away for much of the day and I don't have the time or desire to do that anyway.

So my silence doesn't mean that I condone or condemn anything that people are saying - usually by the time I get home and log on, things have pretty much moved along anyway.

I've been to message boards before where "moderators" took a very paternalistic approach and that bugs me a lot. That isn;t my style.

In fact, my management style is very similar - I don't micromanage - I treat people as adults and I expect adult behavior in return.

Also - to be honest, I think a lot of it has to do with one's background. Coming from medical training centers and into the Pharmaceutical industry - having meetings where a lot of tension, emotions and stress (because a LOT is on the line - in the former patients lives and in the latter, mega $$$ is on the line) - so tempers often flare and exchanges can be VERY heated.

So heated exchanges usually make me yawn, if anything, simply because I have been around them for SO many years - and I such exchanges are so common.

For instance was on the medical board of an enormous Pharma company for years where decisions were made on various drugs - in which billions of dollars would be on the line, and one of my jobs was to determine of some drugs had to be removed from the market due to safety concerns - or have to include dramatic :warnings" in the labeling. Needless to say, things would get extremely heated and I was usually an adversary to marketing folks.

So I have developed VERY thick skin, and one of my shortcomings is - I usually expect that everyone has similar thick skin. I have to learn the hard way that not everyone has such thick skin (ask my family members :)

But I love honesty - and I rarely take anything personally. Its just how I am wired.

So what I am trying to say is - lets have open discussion - but obviously keep it professional and respectful - and so far those criteria seem to me to have been met.

Hope this makes some sense.

gearedup2go said...

Daniel 2:21
King James Version (KJV)

21And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God appoints leaders as part of His Divine plan, whether or not we agree with the choice of leader He has provided us. In Proverbs 21:1 He reminds us that He continues to work in the heart of our leader.

1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD,
Like the rivers of water;
He turns it wherever He wishes.

Waterer's simple request was to refrain from using a derogatory name for the president. Waterer contends that by belittling the name of the man who holds the highest office in the US, it may cause contention and strife for fellow believers which may then cast our testimony in a negative light to both the saved and unsaved.

Paul presented in 1 Corinthians 10:23 (NKJV):

23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.

And in 1 Corinthians 10:31-33....

31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Paul wants us to edify one another and avoid that which may cause a brother to stumble. By doing so, we remain unified and strong in the body of Christ. And that, in turn, serves the greater good.

God granted us governance and we are to honor Him through our obedience to His Word. Jesus demonstrated his duty as a law abiding citizen and told the pharisees to "“Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” in Matthew 22:21. Jesus also illustrated to Peter the need to pay tax on their behalf in Matthew 17:27:

27 "Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money; take that and give it to them for Me and you.”

Isn't it interesting that when Christ faced his persecutors on the eve of His death, He refrained from calling them names? Not once did He mock Pilot. Or the Roman soldiers. Or the Scribes and Pharisees for that matter. No, He stood silent as they brought false charges against Him. And He carried their sins and the sins of the world upon His shoulders and laid it upon a wooden cross.

Whenever I hear the guile words fall from the lips of men in office, or the treasonous actions of our elected officials, I must remember that Christ died for ALL of them--just as He died for me. And it's up to you and me, the salt of the earth, to join together and continue to shine the way home for those who stumble in darkness.

Scott said...

To clarify one more thing -- when I say heated exchanges make me yawn, I'm not suggesting either for this thread.

In fact, this thread doesn't even come close to what I would consider as a 'heated exchange" -

It was my caveman way of saying that I don't get stressed or uncomfortable whatsoever when I am in the midst of a heated exchange - simply because that is the world that I have lived in for the last ~ 30 years. I'm relatively desensitized to such.

Actually - to me - everything above has been very civil and above board - but certainly honest. I don't think you can ask for much more than that.

Scott said...

Geared -

I can't really disagree with anything that you are saying, but I also have to believe that Hod made all of us different - just as Peter was very different from John - they obviously had VERY different personality traits and Jesus loved them both.

I think different people react to things in different ways. Some things really fire people up and some people are much more stoic.

I like to recognize the differences in everyone and acknowledge the wide range of emotions.

Some people get enraged at politicians who they see as taking people's freedoms and oppressing them and that makes them extremely angry. Other folks see such and don't make the immediate connection to loss of freedoms, and the immediate extrapolation to seeing dead bodies such as Nazi Germany - and those people don't understand what they perceive as "extreme" emotions evicted over politics.

We're all SO different in so many different respects.

we all react differently to the various scenarios that are right before us.

Some people are much more quiet and uncomfortable discussing things openly - others have a need to express themselves in a very different way

one size doesn't fit all...

And you are right about Jesus at the cross - but don;t forget how Jesus reacted to the money changers in the temple, and how he reacted to the Pharisees.

One common denominator in Jesus reactions (from my study) - that is, when Jesus reacted with STRONG emotions - was when people were being oppressed by those in power.

The references you cited was when Jesus was personally being abused.

but Jesus got VERY fired up when He was OTHER people being oppressed by those in power -and that is a key difference. That is what the money changers at the Temple were doing as were the Pharisees.

People who Is see getting fired up at politics - in this instance, Obama, See the exact same thing - abuse of power and creating scenarios that make people lose freedom as the almighty state grows more and more powerful.

Any time that has happened in human history - the next step has been extreme human oppression and suffering.

Scott said...

God, not "Hod"

Waiting for DrNo...3...2.....1 :)

Waterer said...

Dear Scott and Geared,

Thank you for your grace to allow participation on your blog as we comment. I did not intend to set any ground rules but I think I came across that way. I am sorry for this.
This is the first and only blog I have ever participated in and it is a really different kind of experience. After reflecting for most of the day on this discussion
I am wishing that I had waited and prayed before plunging in. I did as Geared has noted have a fairly simple point that caused alot of
dust up because of either pressure it brought or a sense of condemnation.
One thing that has stayed with me is the difference in this kind of interaction that makes Jesus's prescription for disagreements and offenses really difficult. He says,
( as was pointed out by Paula , I think) that we go in private to someone whom we have offended or been offended by. If they won't listen then take another along and lastly the group.
This mediem doesn't have a place for that . It starts and ends with the group. If we had been actually sitting in a group, I would not have called anyone out and I am sorry that it came across that way.
Geared, I appreciate the Scriptures (and that you heard my heart in this.) They were on my mind today too but I was not going to go further in this as it really became apparent that it was harmful to the fellowship.
I appreciate the time and effort it took for people to listen and respond. We disagree about this and so it needs to rest in the Lord's hands.
As iron sharpens iron, so does a man sharpen the countenance of his friend.
Paula you are right that outspoken people have to have the space to contribute too. I'm sorry that my
"calling out "of Mrs.C. hit a painful place in you. It was too close to the bone. Forgive me please . Mrs.C, I see you have already reposted and moved past this. You are the Lord's .
Paul writes "If you do something that hurts your conscience then for you it is sin.
For me the name thing is conscience squeezing. For you obviously not. So let the Lord be praised for His Wisdom and mercy
in dealing even with the more
litigious ( me).Blessing s in His Name KR

Scott said...

I actually wasn't thinking of you when I mentioned setting ground rules etc --- > I was really reflecting on my style and how I "manage things" (to be honest, I hadn't considered it until now...When I started this site, I never really even considered the "comments section" as being a factor.

I think you have just as much right to come on and comment about your beliefs (whether its regarding the use of "name calling" or whatever) - as those who disagree.

Thats the kind of open forum that O prefer.

You can say what you want and then other folks can come on and agree/disagree.

It works both ways.

I don't think people should feel inhibited (again, with obvious exceptions that are probably apparent to all) - BUT and this is a big "but" - we all have to be aware that some things we say may end up with a barrage of disagreements ensuing.

Thats ok....I personally don;t mind that at all...I know I have said things or posted things that several people took disagreement with. I'm absolutely fine with that ---- but again, I'm SO used to that.

I think some folks have backgrounds where that kind of discourse is more unusual or less frequently occurs and maybe with such folks, it seems more offensive that it does to me (again, because of background)

I'm just so used to being in group meetings where a LOT of very vocal disagreements take place and they can get very very heated. You do get desensitized after a while.

I hope this makes sense.

But I hope people feel welcome to express their views on whatever - INCLUDING what you originally said - but be prepared for follow-up....

After all, I'm ALWAYS looking over my shoulder waiting for DrNo to show up and put me in my place:)

Scott said...

"I"not "O'...Man what a slip that was :)

DrNofog said...

Ooooh! yaaawwnn! Wow... I took Caver advice an' pushed back from the keyboard...
-and apparently conked out for quite a few hrs..

Did I miss anything?? [as DrNofog reaches for a box on the shelf marked "Chauvinist Grenades"...]

Are the female spats over with??

Bwwaaaaaa haaaa haaa haa!
I crack myself up!!

Scott said...

I hope "You Two" are getting along these days :)

gearedup2go said...

DrNo, don't be a pinhead. Your wife taught you better than that.

DrNofog said...

Hey, I wuz jest doing my part!

I had noticed when a issue seems to have run its course, Scott will try to summarize and drone on, putting the kiss o' death on it, so someone hasta jump in and resuscitate the victim and liven things up a bit...

BTW, your H&R specialist violated you again [com#...1318472624033#c4775887939800726718].