For these reasons, such developments in nuclear technology is worth watching very closely:
North Korea 'may have developed nuclear warhead for ballistic weapon'
North Korea may have developed a nuclear warhead small enough to be loaded onto a ballistic missile, the South Korean defence minister said yesterday, warning that risk of another “surprise provocation” by the Stalinist regime was now rising.
...last November the North surprised many watchers by unveiling a sophisticated new uranium enrichment facility to supplement its existing plutonium-based weapons programme which it has tested in 2006 and 2009.
The North is still believed to be trying to sell weapons. According to US officials quoted by The New York Times a Korean cargo ship believed to be carrying a consignment of weapons to Burma was intercepted by a US Navy destroyer patrolling south of Shanghai
“The possibility of a surprise provocation with various means and methods is steadily increasing while (the North is) pressuring us with rhetorical threats,” Mr Kim said, adding Pyongyang had “succeeded” with a short range missile test two weeks ago.
Iranian Official: 'We Will Use Our Missiles To Protect Other Muslim States'
Last Thursday, Iranian Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani — while at the Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University in Indonesia — stated that Iran will use its missiles to defend other Muslim nations if threatened.
This is the first time that a high-ranking Iranian official has issued such a warning. In effect, Iran is expanding its defense strategy from protecting their own sovereignty to a “defensive umbrella” over other Islamic nations.
Larijani based his argument on what he called “the school of the late Ayatollah Khomeini,” the founder of the Islamic Republic: Muslims should possess enough defensive strength to use against other countries should one of those countries attack. Larijani further stated:
We do not hide our defensive advancement and (we) have designed advanced missile systems. … Israel and the U.S. should know that if they want to act violently toward Muslims, we will stand in their wa
I revealed recently that the Revolutionary Guards have now expanded the reach of their missiles to 2000 miles, which covers the capitals in Western Europe. These missiles are capable of carrying a nuclear payload.
Most importantly: Iran’s leaders believe that the time for a worldwide Islamic state is at hand.
Also, through a secret pact with Venezuela which was signed by Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on October 19 in Tehran, the Guards are constructing a missile installation to be built inside Venezuela with missiles able to reach U.S. shores. The Guards are also actively arming Hezbollah, which now has over 40,000 rockets, and Hamas with over 10,000 rockets.
Does Iran Now Have Nuclear Capable Warheads?
According to reports from Iran, two missile warheads with nuclear capability have been delivered to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).
Based on reports received by the Green Experts of Iran, the range of the missiles, produced by the Ministry of Defense Industries, has also been boosted and can now travel a distance of 2,000 miles.
Simultaneously, a joint military-industrial project with Iran, Pakistan, China and the Ukraine has begun to produce nuclear warheads, including the first manufactured nuclear-capable warheads. These are now in the possession of the Revolutionary Guards.
The Ukrainians provided the design for the warheads, while the Chinese and Pakistanis delivered the technology, machining and tooling. The Iranian Ministry of Defense coordinated the interface with all three.
Several months later, WikiLeaks releases about Iran revealed that the Revolutionary Guards had obtained a cache of advanced missiles from North Korea capable of carrying nuclear warheads. With a range of 2000 miles, they give Iran the capacity to strike the capitals of Western Europe and can easily reach Moscow.
The amazing aspect of all of this - is the simple but profound fact that everything is coming together precisely as we would expect, based upon a literal view of biblical prophecy.
Not only that, but over the last several years, we watch these various aspects of biblical prophecy - including, but certainly not limited to - the various alliances, the weapons technology, the growth of terrorist groups, the nations aligning against Israel, the ability to produce weapons of mass destruction, the partnership of rogue nations and terrorist groups, the "arab uprising" which actually represents a rise of the Muslim Brotherhood throughout the Middle East and on and on it goes.
We watch as the world heads towards the Tribulation like a fast moving train - while a largely unrepentant world remains unaware.
But in the words given to the prophet Daniel:
"...but only those who are wise will understand" (Daniel 12:10)
"...but only those who are wise will understand" (Daniel 12:10)
I have often asked God for wisdom Scott so I guess He has indeed answered that prayer. We sometimes sell ourselves short or fail to recognized and thank God for His answers. We know from James that every good and perfect gift comes down from our Father of heavenly lights." Thank you Jesus for understanding of what you are doing in these last days!
Amen . What a blessing to have wisdom in these last days, to understand what is happening and why.
People have often wondered Is the judgement in revelation Natural or supernatural? I think the seal judgment are natural. Man has always wanted a world without god They have said to god leave me alone. So god remove his restraining influence And revelation 6 is what you get. When you read the fourth horseman/seal that's a perfect description of a nuclear warfare. the bowl judgments are clearly supernatural meted out by God. The trumpet judgement Are a good description of nuclear warfare. I'm not sure whether they are natural or supernatural. The 5 and 6th trumpet are clearly demonic.
"According to the statesman, who is also president of the Foundation for European Progressive Studies (FEPS), the EU needs to unambiguously support the democratisation process in Arab countries and establish a European policy towards its Mediterranean neighbours, 'a true partnership for development and democracy'.
But he also insisted that Brussels must genuinely intervene in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
'We can no longer accept the blind policy of the Israeli government, which is against the interests of Israel but also against the interests of Europe,' the Italian politician said."
* * *
hanas fatah agreement on the palestinian government including president and ministers:
This is for you Scott :) :) :)
• Millennium - obviously can't happen till the Second Coming, because that's when the Lord returns to establish it.
• The Second Coming - can't happen till the end of the Great Tribulation. And that can't happen till the anti-Christ stands in the Temple in Israel declaring himself to be God. (2 Thes. 2:4) That's the event Jesus warned Israel to look for as the Great Tribulation's begining. He called it "The Abomination of Desolation" in Matt. 24:15-21.
But that can't happen till there's a Temple. There hasn't been a Temple in Israel since 70AD and there won't be one until the Jews decide they need one. That won't happen until God reinstates their Old Covenant relationship, signaling the start of Daniel's 70th week. And that can't happen till the Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 is won, because it's Ezekiel's battle that officially draws the Jews back to God. (Ezek. 39:22) And that can't happen till the Church is gone, because the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive to Him. (Romans 11:25 & Acts 15:13-18) Bringing us to the present, because there is no event that has to happen for the Rapture of the Church. It could happen at any time. :)
Dear Mrs. C......
Please REREAD your bible.....
Paul is very clear.....
2 thessalonians 2
the so called gathering up or THE
RAPTURE cannot occur until the
man of sin is revealed.
These are Paul's own words....
please reread your Bible
Stephen in Hawaii !!!!
Believe me....She has read the bible. The insight the Holy Spirit has given her reference Isiah and the beginning of the next war have blown me away.
You do not want to get into a public argument with her on this part of scripture.
Listen brother, we all love you man, and appreciate your input a great deal, but that just isn't true doctrinally. Plus, I never feel comfortable basing an entire 'doctrine' based on a single scripture.
I don't agree with that take on 2 Thess 2, and agree with the previous comments of DrNo and Sue, among others, who have lovingly and attentively places some very sound scriptures and commentary around this.
Also, of all the prophecy folks I know, Mrs C knows her stuff about as well as anyone I have ever come across. She doesn't post much (regretfully) - but when she says something - I listen attentively.
We are to be looking for Christ's coming, not the coming of the AC.
We know that the AC will not be revealed until the beginning of the Tribulation (Daniel 9:27) - these two occurrences are one and the same. There will be no overlap between the Church age and the Tribulation. None.
If we were here to see the AC, then there would be such an overlap and that cannot happen. But that is only one reason we won't be here to see the AC (beyond speculation).
I urge you to read "Maranatha Our Lord, Come!" by Renald Showers, in particular Ch 11, where he takes this up.
be very careful about determining a whole thought process based on a single scripture - rather look at a larger body of work. There are just too many references that show that there can be no overlap between the Tribulation and the Church age.
Remember - we're all in this together.
Any division between the Church saints (us) is from the other side, not from Christ. He wants us to be together in love and support.
Thank you for the very kind words my Brother :)It is my honor to post on your wonderful site! The Lord has truly Blessed you Scott with amazing insight, and passion for the Truth of His Word. In turn, you are such a Blessing to countless Brothers and Sisters, and that includes us! :) Please forgive me for not posting as much as I should be. Ive had many, many distractions :(, and we know where that comes from! Truly it is an immense privilege for us all to study and share His Word in these Last Days! When the storms are all around us in these Last Days, and they intensify, remember Peter!
When he looked down...he began to sink...when he looked up to Jesus… afraid...Jesus immediately Saved him. LOOK UP EVERYONE! :) Our Redemption draws nigh!
Scott, Mrs. C: I would be most interested in your appraisal of my thoughts on 2 Thes. 2:3 at this link. I think there is good reason to render tes apostasia as "The Departure", not the "falling away" most versions use. This word is also accompanied by "first", and separated from "may be revealed", such that "first" goes with only "The Departure", not "and may be revealed". In other words, "Don't let anyone fool you by any means, because that won't happen until after the Departure, and then the Lawless One, Apollo, will be revealed." (Hover over the final word in that verse to see a ref. to the source material that led me to render it the false god Apollo rather than simply "man of ruin").
Paula - thanks for that - I'm on the run right now, but will definitely look at the link later when I get back...
I firmly believe that the 'departure' signifies a physical departure (aka the rapture) - based on a number of factors - more later - thanks
Mrs C- God Bless :)
Dear Scott >>>
I am NOT here to cause problems and
caues people to argue. I just want
to point OUT the facts as I see them.
I believe that there will be a period of time JUST BEFORE the 7 years begins that the rapture will
hit. I agree with your Jewish Wedding Model and the 7 days
matching up with Daniel's 70th
I have no problem with that.
Yet, i cannot and WILL not go
against Paul's words.
This is the time table I see >>>
A/C revealed and starts work on
peace agreement per daniel 9:27.
Worldwide declaration of peace
on the Internet by many nations
leading to reference AGAIN BY PAUL
of "they shall be proclaiming peace
and safety, ect, ect"
RAPTURE HITS and panic breaks out.
7 year peace agreement starts as
scheduled by AC and his cohorts.
This is WHAT I believe.
And it all fits if you think
Stephen in Hawaii !!!
Ok, Im sure Scott will have a wonderful answer for you Paula, but I must say up front, that the Trib, AC, I really dont focus on :)
I'll give this a try! lol and try to keep it simple :)
The word in question, has been, and is debated to its meaning. The Greek Word "apostasia" has been understood to mean forsake, defect of rebellion. From what I understand, the only other place its used, is in Acts 21:21 where Paul teaches the Gentiles to "forsake"(apostasia) the teaching of Moses. Regardless of what the word means, we have to look entirely at the context of what Paul is saying, not just one Verse.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 refers to the Rapture of the Church with the descriptive phrase “The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.” It is the same event Paul discusses with these same believers in 1 Thes. 4:17. This Truth was being threatened by the idea that the Great Tribulation (“The Day of the Lord”) had already arrived and they were experiencing it then.
If they, or Believers at large, were to be in part of the Tribulation (as the Mid-Trib position states) or most of it (as the Post-Trib position states), Paul would not have bothered to correct them about the false idea that Christians would go through the Great Tribulation. Paul says quite clearly in 1 Thes. That the Church will not go through that period in which God will pour out His Wrath on an unbelieving world (see 1 Thes. 1:10; 4:13–18; 5:4–11). Paul concluded in 2 Thes. 2 that the Day of the Lord will not come prior to the Rapture.
Israel will have an unease peace for three and a half years. The AC will sense the Jewish peoples suspicions of him, and he will attempt to claim his authority by basically calling himself the God of Israel. 2 Thes.2:3–4 Jesus Himself and Daniel, both refer to this specific event. “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains” (Matt. 24:15–16). Jesus says nothing of the Rapture in relation to the specific verses in 2 Thes.2:3–4 In other words, Jesus speaks of the "abomination of desolation" and doesnt say Hes coming to get us then, but rather is speaking to the Jewish Believers of that future time to flee!
Simply put, Paul tells us in this Scripture, that three things have to happen for the AC to be revealed. First is the falling away in verse 3 and the other is the removal of the restrainer in verse 7, and then the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus spoke of.
Believers-in-name-only are already rampantly "falling away" or "rebelling" from the Church, today, as we speak!(Emergent sound familiar?) Then the true Believers will be “taken out of the way” with the Holy Spirit in the Rapture, then the anti-Christ will be revealed. JMHO :)
Hi Mrs. C., thanks!
I don't see Paul discussing false teachings in 2 Thes. 2, but only the Day of the Lord and the forged letter that had made the people fear they had missed "the departure". The semantic range of apostasia certainly includes "to rebel", but the immediate context doesn't talk about rebelling from the gospel; it doesn't specify what is being departed from. So both views are entirely possible.
Anyway, the question had been raised about whether or not the church would see the AC before the Rapture, and I think we're agreeing that we will not. :-)
I have tried repeatedly to convince a guy in my Sunday School class about that verse in II Thessalonians 2 with all the arguments presented here but to no avail. He is pre-wrath and no amount of logic seems to convince him. At first reading I can see how he views it...but in context we know Paul was comforting those in the church that thought they were in the tribulation but Paul assures them they are not because the (departure) had not occured nor was the AC on the scene. Yes apostasia in every translation prior to the KJV had this word as departure and not falling away.
I think the root of the issue is people start with a pre-supposition and then build their "biblical" case to support their view.
Yes Paula, we will not be hear during the Trib. :) Thank You Jesus! Jesus is not coming back for a beat up Bride! Jesus Promised us in Rev.3:10, that He will keep us from the wrath to come upon the world. We are not of the world. . Paul too speaks of this, in 1 Thes 1:10 for example :)
The trigger of Trib is Daniel 9:27, and in 2 Thes, Paul it talking about a Mid-Trib event, and so does Jesus in Matt 24. We will not even know who the AC is. We can speculate, but will not know, because WE ARE OTTA HERE! If we were here for example, we would be able to count the number of days until the Second Coming of Jesus, and that is not for the Church to do. The Church and Israel are mutually exclusive to God, and He is focusing on His People, Israel, during the Trib.
“A/C revealed and starts work on peace agreement per daniel 9:27
Stephen: ”From memory; I think you do believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture?
Daniel 9:27 corresponds with Jesus opening the first Seal of The Tribulation in Rev 6:1.which is the revealing of the A/c (White Horse and Rider)
Therefore you are placing the Church within The Tribulation.
God bless you Stephen.
Scott, have you seen this?
"From 1. Jan. 2011, every transaction above 1,500 euros between natural persons and businesses, or between businesses, will not be considered legal if it is done in cash. Transactions will have to be done through debit or credit cards"
Thank You All~
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone here for their reflection of true brotherly and sisterly love as you sort out these very tough topics. I am sure it is not easy to broach these topics, but it's wonderful to see a forum who can discuss differences all in the spirit of love. I am learning much from these discussions. On a side note, I believe it was either James or WVBORN56 who started this song in my head a few weeks ago. Now I can't get rid of "Country Road Take Me Home"... :) It makes me smile when it pops up in my head through out the day.
Have a blessed day all!
WV - good point - one that I make frequently:)
Sue - yep - I agree
GG - Indeed. What a great group who God placed here - I just love the discussions!
I have to respectfully disagree that nothing has to occur before the rapture. : ) There is one trigger point--the fullness of the Gentiles--a number that is determined by God before He sends His Son to come for us. Once we are removed via the rapture, He then turns His attention towards Israel, His chosen people.
Romans 11:25-26 (NKJV)
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
The context of Romans 11:25,26 concerns the ‘mystery’ of Israel’s blindness and the ending of earths Gentile rule; not the Rapture of the Church. :)
Sorry GG, Country roads is the defacto state anthem of WV...my beloved home state...great beauty and great people. They are just a bit confused politically although they are conservative by nature they keep electing folks like Jay Rockerfeller and Robert Byrd because they mouth the words "we are for the working man". To our credit we soundly rejected Obama, Gore and company.
That's OK :) I can say I am about as old as sir Scott here and I remember learning that song living in Yorktown and Dale City Virgina as a young girl. It never came to mind until you mentioned it here - It was like finding a piece of my past..Thank you! (ha ha.)
I have made the classic error of muddling the Times with the Fullness of the Gentiles. Cooking a meal together with Bible Study is not to be recommended and I apologise for the confusion.
I know this does not affect an impending Rapture, but truthfully I cannot remember for the life of me why not!
God bless you.
Sue, lol. After I posted that verse something in me was a little unsettled. I still believe that when the full number of Gentiles is reached, the rapture of the saints will occur and will include both Jew (some, but not as many) and Gentile who have accepted Christ as their savior. Until that time we can only watch and wait for the return of our High Priest, who will gather us together in front of the prince of air. What a glorious day that will be!
WV, it's been awhile since I've heard that little tune and how nice it is to take a stroll down memory lane. I often think of John Denver's You Fill Up My Senses whenever I spend time in nature. : )
Your not wrong! And it makes no difference to imminency! The following is more for the benefit of Pre-Trib challenges.
The ‘Fullness of the Gentiles’ is the ‘Church Age’ which is part of the ‘Mysteries’.
Eph1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:…
The ‘Rapture’ is the name of the event, and the ‘Fullness of the Gentiles’ is the outcome of the event. (Cause and Effect) One is the other; and is not meant to be seen as two separate entities. Imo.
The disciples had an imminent attitude toward the Rapture knowing the Fullness/Rapture could have occurred at any moment.
E.g. it is clear that John had good reason to believe Jesus could have returned during his lifetime John21:20-23.
Even the redemption of the body is thought to be very near Romans 13:11-12 (salvation in this context is an eschatological, ‘some unknown future event and not soteriological).
Jesus is considered to be ‘at the door’ in James 5:7-9.
Jesus is coming quickly Rev.22:20.
These, and other Scriptures, are all statements of ‘imminency’ which can ONLY be true of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Israel’s TEMPORARY blindness was for the Gentiles to receive Salvation. This temporary blindness for the sake of the Gentiles is not revealed in the O.T.
Its purpose is also to provoke Israel to jealousy, thereby a remnant of Jews come to faith in Messiah and are united with Gentiles as One New Man – the Church, Christ’s Body.
When God decides she is complete (unknown and imminent) He will then turn His attention to the Salvation and final re-gathering of Israel in belief.
Acts 15:14 "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name…
Acts16. 'After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up;
Not forgetting Maranatha!
P.S. I am glad you felt a little 'unsettled', you minx; you darn near gave E.I. an heart attack - all that straining of veg and brains. :D
I dunno, I always thot Luke 21:23-25: "...and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..." & Rom. 11 extends to the end of the Trib. as Jerusalem will certainly be occupied by ACs army after they reject him.
Has nothing to do wif da Rapture. - So there! That's my "can-o-worms" for the day!
YES! Luke 21:24 IS about the TIMES of the Gentiles which is Nebuchadnezzars dream in Daniel 2 of a great image consisting of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Plus Daniel 7 visions of the four beasts.
From Babylon until the destruction of A/c, the final Gentile ruler, is the TIMES of the Gentiles.
Thereafter it will be Restored Israel that will rule earth during the 1000 year Messianic Kingdom and yes, Romans 11 is a part of these Scripture and YES the Times of the Gentiles (‘kairos’- a measure of time)has nothing to do with the Rapture or the Church.
This is the mistake I made when considering Romans 11:25 and the FULLNESS (‘pleroma’- literally ‘filled up) of the Gentiles; which is when the Church is FULL of the Gentiles God is calling. The end of the Church Age.
Apart from the Rapture, the evidence that God turns his attention to saving of Israel is right from day one of the 7 year Tribulation when the Jewish Elijah comes to turn to the Jews back to God; the two Jewish Witnesses who testify and (I believe) get the Temple up and running again; as well as the 144,000 Jewish male virgins – servants of the Lord which indicates that they, like the Disciples before them, will preach the gospel of the kingdom (Messianic Jewish Rule).
God bless you lots.
Sue, thank you for so eloquently and poignantly stating the biblical position on the fullness of the gentiles. I feel as if I'm sitting at the table with you, enjoying a cup of tea as you present your argument. : ) Your warmth and compassion for truths as presented in His Word is soothing to the soul.
Just my two cents worth :) Yes, there are scales on the eyes of the Jew towards there True Messiah. Yes, and that was to open Salvation to the Gentiles.
But as God would have it, the Gospel is to the Jew first, and then the Gentile, as Paul tells us in Romans 1:16
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
We are to Witness the Gospel to the Jew first. :) There are "Messianic Jews" who believe in the coming of the Messiah, but not that Jesus is their Messiah. Then we have full, complete as it were, Jews that are Born Again Believers. Jewish Believers are today, here and now, very much apart of the Bride, the Church.
Presently Israel, Gods Chosen People, are out of Covenant with Him. He turns His full attention back to them right before the Trib, right on the cusp of it. Gods whole purpose of orchestrating first Isaiah 17, quickly followed by Ezekiel 38-39, is to restore His Covenant with them, which He so beautifully does. It is a momentous moment in all of time. God tells His people, that after thousands of years of "hiding His Face" from them, He will "hide His Face no more". That from that moment forward, He is fully with them forever. It is awesome to read!
Hello Mrs C
As I was concentrating on ‘Gentile’; I am thankful you have emphasised ‘to the Jew FIRST’.
Romans 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”
Notice that EVERYONE (Jew or Gentile) that believes the Gospel of Christ; receives Salvation.
As you have implied (some) are claiming today that the Jews do not require to believe in Christ!
Why! Is there another way? Not according to Jesus and His Apostle John.
John 6:68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of Eternal Life.
Vs.69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Praise The Lord and Maranatha!
God bless you.
Hi Sue, and Amen to you too Sis! Yes, its a mess out there today. With replacement theology etc. I actually had to remind someone a few weeks back, that Jesus is still a Jew. That never changed! They seemed surprised to say the least, as if it never dawned on them! With all thats happening with Israel, and the growing anti-Semitism, we can expect more and more blind ignorance. And thats not just from unbelievers, but from "Christians" alike! The Lord said it would be like this, and its amazing to witness His Word coming true before us. What a privilege, an immense Blessing for us all, to be born into this Generation. To know that before the foundation of the earth, while we were still in our mothers womb, God Almighty knew each of our names. He has great confidence in us to allow us to be born into these Last Days, and be a Witness for His Son! Words are not enough to describe the Blessing we have!
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