Thursday, June 2, 2011

Ignorance or Arrogance?

Jan Markell has an interesting commentary which covers a lot of ground but the following points were interesting and offer a perspective worth considering:

Is it Ignorance or Arrogance?

The fanfare is over. Benjamin Netanyahu has left the building. He has returned to Israel and he and the Israelis realize that they are on their own. The President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, has identified himself as the most anti-Israel President in history.

As much as I like Jan Markell's opinion, I have to disagree here. Jimmy Carter holds that title hands down. His anti-Israel position has been in place for decades and he presided over the creation of the first radical Islamic state, Iran. Additionally, at least for now, president Obama is arguing against a UN vote to create a PA State (for reasons that are unclear - possibly involving his desire to be seen as the person responsible for a peace agreement) and it is hard to imagine Carter taking that stand.

Having said that, president Obama isn't exactly a friend and ally to Israel.

But he does not speak for all of the American people and he does not speak for all of Congress. There may be only a few issues in Washington that have bi-partisan support, but one of those issues is that both the Right and the Left in Congress -- with a few exceptions -- remain an ally of God's covenant land. Many of them are trying to hold back the water from the hole in the dam that would make the Islamic empire the chosen people.

The key part of this commentary, as seen below serves as a reminder as to what is really going on:

Let me give you the key to unraveling the end-time code God has given us. Remember three things: Israel, Jerusalem, and the Temple Mount, in that order. And Jesus returns to rule and reign out of Jerusalem -- not New York, or Cairo, or London.

Don't ever get stressed about Israel's survival.

Be justifiably concerned about America's.

God will always watch over His covenant land and people. "He who keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps" (Psalm 121:4).

One hundred million Arabs have tried to annihilate her since 1948, and they have consistently struck out. But every American who is concerned about the security of the United States should be livid and should tremble for our nation.

One of the strongest delusions today is that if there were just a two-state solution between Israel and "Palestine," there would then be world peace.

But this scenario is not all dark! Now that the most powerful man in the world has turned on the Jewish state and on God, perhaps that beleaguered nation will begin to turn her eyes to the One who formed a covenant with her millennia ago.

We know that in a future war known as the Gog-Magog invasion in Ezekiel 38-39, Israel will be forced to reach out to God for help. The passage indicates that there will be no earthly ally to help her. Zechariah 12 indicates she will be friendless as well.

That reminder is much appreciated. As we watch the world around us in dismay, it is comforting to recall that God is in charge and everything that we see happening in the world today has a purpose and ties in with a bigger plan. God's plan.

God obviously desires that the Nation of Israel will turn to Him - to seek Him - in their time of need. If, for instance, the U.S. were to intervene on Israel's behalf, then perhaps the Israelis wouldn't need to seek God.

Israel will survive. God will make sure of that.


hartdawg said...

hey Scott ...not to get off topic here but with the likelyhood of my mom passing (Christians dont die) I long for the return of christ even more... with that in mind I would like to propose why its possible the rapture precedes psalm 83 and hopefully I'm not delusional. please at least consider these points and tell me what you think. 1) I'm looking for the rapture not some battles. 2) the description of the destruction of damascus( and all the surrounding nations for that matter) fit a post rapture world 3) the context of this battle in other portions of scripture is the time of judgement.4) the clear implication from scripture is that israel is utterly alone. tho obama is the anti israel the fact remains that pro israel evangelical christians represent a huge voting power and l obama doesn't admit it he at least realizes that and some reports him back peddling his pro arab stance. that won't be the case when church is gone

hartdawg said...

5)during and after psalm 83 israel is regarded as" my people"( read israestine) a post rapture scenario 6) Zephaniah 2 starting with verse 4 tells of the destruction of israel neighbors whic happens in psalm83 butversus 1 through 4 imply the rapture 7) god is judging the false gods at this time.
this battle may or may not proceed the rapture but you got to admit there is a good case for placing the rapture before this battle. are these good points or am I delusional?

Harry said...

Can you explain more about this verse: "3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Why you said the Rapture before tribulation? Thanks for your explanation, Scott

hartdawg said...

"that day (day of the lord...or tribulation) shall not come unless the falling away comes and man of sin ( anti christ) is revealed" they scott they were in the tribulation. paul was correcting a forged letter... it says " concerning the coming of our lord( second coming) and are being gathered together to him( rapture)" these are 2 different events he goes on to say" I do not want you to become easily shaken(the word means terrified) as if the day of the lord has occurred".... if those people had a post trib understanding then they would not have been terrified but would have been excited because in several places it says we eagerly await the coming of the lord. but if they had a pre trib understanding then it makes sense that they were terrified that they were in the day of the lord because it would mean that they have missed the rapture. so that passage supports a pre trib position

Anonymous said...

Today is Ascesion Day.

Caver said...

Willful ignorance and blindness

DrNofog said...

Harry, we had some good comments on that back "here" in April.

Anon pointed out that: "...Actually, the KJV was the first English bible to translate this word as falling away as opposed to the word departure used in all previous 7 translations..."

You might want to check out some of the other comments that followed it.

Scott, this is Day 2 of the new month!!

"DrNofog, we are all over here in the new month!"

You guys soooo let me down...

DrNofog said...

And speaking of "Departure", I wonder if this will cause the Bad O-man to have to depart...

Criminal complaint charges Obama birth record 'forged'
22-page brief filed with FBI claims 'irrefutable proof' document a fraud.

"...forgery of a public document constitutes a class B felony in Hawaii and multiple violations under U.S. Code section Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47, Sec.1028, and therefore an impeachable offense..."

...unless, of course, he can find some kind of "National Emergency" and declare martial law ... then he can be our 1st Emperor for life.

On the other hand, it's typical of the way Satan "rewards" his faithful minions when they've done their damage and are no longer needed, not just out to pasture, but buried while yer still breathing...

Dylan said...

Hart, sorry about your mother. And I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees a pretrib rapture, but we think we might get a glimpse of the AC.

Scott said...

Sorry guys, I've been out a lot lately. My Dad is in his last hours and I'll be traveling back and forth to Charlotte a lot over the next few days. I still hope to post daily, but it will be difficult to stay on top of the comments section.


I see your points re PSa 83/ ISA 17 and the rapture and I hope you are correct. I see more definitive/compelling reasons that we wouldn't be here for Gog-MaGog.

OTOH - as soon as the Rapture takes place, I believe in a matter of days - because of the turmoil that it will create - the radical Islamic groups will see a golden opportunity to attack. I could see that setting up the Psa 83/Isa 17 scenario. But I still thing we could be here for this. Not so much for Gog-MaGog

Harry - I hope you are looking at the links that DrNo provided.

In addition to that, here are my thoughts:

- This whole 'debate' doesn't matter much to me, because it isn't one of my "foundational" scriptures. IOW, I have enough other pre-trib rapture scriptures to sufficiently nail that down.

- Having said the above, I do believe it is a reference to a "physical departure" for a few simple reasons:

1. All bible versions before the KJV used this in the sense of "departure" (ie, 'physical departure') and then for inexplicable reasons, the KJV leaned more towards apostasy.

2. Paul was warning the church in Thessalonica that they were NOT living in the Tribulation, and he was giving reasons to support that.

Now think about that for a second, as context is THE KEY here. If Paul was trying to comfort them, that they weren't living in the Tribulation - why would he use "apostasy" as a reference? That wouldn't be reassuring AT ALL - as apostasy was predominant at that time in history. So why would Paul have said, "Don't worry...You will see apostasy before the Tribulation begins...Huh? - that isn't reassuring at all - given the amount of apostasy in existence at that time. However, a physical departure makes a LOT more sense, as that WOULD have been comforting - ie, Paul telling them that the physical departure would occur first.

Sue and the others have better, more compelling reasons, and you may want to take a look at that as well.

God Bless, and thanks for stopping by !

Scott said...

Also - if you are interested in the reasons for a pre-trin rapture, you may want to listen to the audio link in the top right hand corner of this blog - specifically "Rapture II" where I go into great detail on this topic.

Anonymous said...

Scott >>>> URGENT >>>>>>>

Please go here to j Post


with possible land swaps !!!!

planned for JULY 2011

in France

Mr. Amrani takes over on 01 JULY 2011......please remember that...

Yes, i still believe that the AC
MUST be revealed before the rapture
but all hope is not lost.....


I think we need to watch this guy

Stephen in Hawaii !!!!

Anonymous said...

Scott IF LINK does not work

go to J post

Stephen !!!!

Alice said...

Scott, please know that we are all praying for you and your family, and also for your Dad. How comforting it must be to know that although you will miss him terribly, you probably won't be apart for long! Maranatha!

Scott said...

Thanks Stephen - I'm on it!

Scott said...

I just had that conversation with my mom and my brother. We're all at peace with this. What glory we all have in 'death' - unlike non-believers, who have no hope. I never ever refer to a Christian (who has died) in the past tense. Never. All Christians who have left the earth are very much alive. In fact, more "alive" than we are. And as you say, we'll all be together soon - in the most epic reunion in history. What a glorious moment that will be!

Alice said...

hartdawg, I will also keep you, your family and your mom in my prayers as well. May He bring you peace that surpasses all understanding.

hartdawg said...

Scott..I'm in the same mom is in her final days/hours. personally I think I'll see her in 2-3 years max.

Scott said...



Anonymous said...

[I appreciate Prophecy Update & share this web item I ran into not long ago. Note "Walvoord Melts Ice." Lord bless. Shirley]


How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He's now there with the Father) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the too-hot-to-handle Acts 3:21!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends (Acts 2:34,35 echo this), the rapture therefore can't take place before the end of the trib!
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel's posttrib resurrection!)
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!).
Other Google articles on the 181-year-old pretrib rapture view include “Famous Rapture Watchers,” "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," “X-Raying Margaret,” "Edward Irving is Unnerving," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” "Walvoord Melts Ice," “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" – all by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).