Turkey Dispatches 3 Warships to Eastern Mediterranean
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has dispatched 3 warships to the Eastern Mediterranean to 'defend against Israeli vessels' and ensure 'freedom of navigation' for his country’s ships, Today's Zaman reported.
The move, only the latest in Erdogan's bellicose rhetorical assault on Israel, comes on the same day he called Israel's boarding of the Gaza-bound Mavi Marmara in 2010 "grounds for war" adding only Turkey's "greatness and patience" had averted conflict.
...Turkish ships will provide protection for ships bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza and confront Israeli warships outside of Israel's territorial waters if necessary, according to the report.
The prospect of a Cuban Missile Crisis style showdown at sea with Turkey, a NATO power and fellow ally of the United States, has led Washington to appeal for restraint and led to a quiet decision for brinksmanship - and continued enforcement of the blockade - in Jerusalem.
Also see:
Turkish frigates to confront Israeli ships in Mediterranean
The Turkish Navy is planning to dispatch three frigates to the Eastern Mediterranean to ensure freedom of navigation and to confront Israeli warships if necessary, a Turkish news report said on Monday.
If the Turkish warships encounter an Israeli military ship outside Israel's 12-mile territorial waters, they will advance up to 100 meters close to the ship and disable its weapon system, in a confrontation that resembles dogfights in the Aegean Sea with Greek jet fighters, according to the report.
And this:
Turkey sending 3 warships to Mediterranean
The prospect of a showdown at sea with Turkey, a NATO power and fellow ally of the United States, rattled Israelis already on edge over political upheaval in the Arab world and Iran's nuclear program. Washington has appealed for restraint.
Erdogan, seeking to expand Turkey's regional influence, will travel to Cairo on Monday as part of a tour of three Arab countries likely to be scrutinized by Israel, whose once warm ties with both Muslim states have been shaken.
Turkey is increasing the rumors of war by air as well:
New technology allows Turkey to attack Israeli targets
Turkey's Military Electronic Industry developed a new identification system for its F-16 fighter jets that will allow it to attack Israeli targets, according to a Tuesday report by the Turkish Star Gazete.
The previous US system automatically classified all Israeli targets as "friend" and disallowed any attacks on them. The new system will allow Turkey to determine whether or not a target should be considered "friend."
After two years of development, the system is ready for use and will be installed on Turkish aircrafts, ships and submarines in the near future.
Meanwhile, the rhetoric has become even more toxic:
The report came a day after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan arrived in Cairo, amid expectations he will blast Israel at a meeting of the Arab League foreign ministers on Tuesday as part of his efforts to be seen as the head of the Muslim world.
“Israel has become a spoiled child... Not only does it practice state terrorism against the Palestinians, but it also started to act irresponsibly,” he was quoted as saying in a recent interview with the Egyptian daily Al-Shorouk.
Also see:
Turkey no longer averting attacks on Israeli targets
The bottom line to all of this?
Israel-Turkey military clash becomes more likely
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Monday significantly increased the likelihood of an Israeli-Turkish military clash when he dispatched a naval task force to the eastern Mediterranean with orders to confront Israeli warships.
Erdogan has called Israel's May 2010 interception of a Turkish-led "humanitarian aid" flotilla to Gaza an act of piracy. He labeled as a "war crime" the killing of nine Turkish nationals who, along with other passengers, tried to lynch the Israeli boarding party.
Last week, Erdogan ratcheted up his hostile rhetoric when he told an Al Jazeera interviewer that Israel's raid on the Mavi Marmara and its fellow vessels had been "grounds for war."
And it seems Erdogan is determined to actually provoke a confrontation.
He told Al Jazeera that Turkey has "humanitarian aid that we want to carry" to Gaza, under the protection of his warships, in violation of the Israeli blockade.
So it appears that Erdogan will threaten the Gaza blockade under the premise of "humanitarian aid":
Israel says it will not back down on its maritime blockade of Gaza, which the UN commissioned Palmer Committee certified as legal and legitimate just last month. While the Palmer Report criticized Israel for the level of violence used in subduing the Mavi Marmara crew, it approved of Israel's enforcement of the Gaza blockade, even in international waters.
Erdogan's threat also completely ignores the fact that an enormous amount of humanitarian aid enters Gaza ever day via the coastal territory's land crossings with Israel.
Prior to the Mavi Marmara incident, Israel and other nations urged the flotilla's organizers to transfer their aid via those land crossings. Readily admitting that their main goal was to break Israel's UN-certified blockade, the flotilla organizers refused.
Now it appears Erdogan is prepared to do the same, but with far more serious consequences.
Turkey is threatening Cyprus as well:
Turkey seeks EU help to avert Cyprus gas crisis
Turkey's ambassador to the EU has said member states should urge Cyprus to "see reason" in order to stop a dispute over gas exploration from getting worse.
Cyprus has hired US company Noble to start drilling later this month at a 6,000-square-kilometre field called Block 12, situated under the Mediterranean Sea to the south of the island.
Cyprus has been split in two since 1974 with the Turkish military still present on the island in support of the largely unrecognised Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
Asked by EUobserver if Turkey would use warships to stop Noble from going ahead if necessary, Kuneralp said: "I hope it will not come to that and the Greek Cypriots will see reason ...
The region was already a powder keg before Turkey began there sabre-rattling. Now Turkey continues to provoke and threaten neighboring countries in the region, particularly Israel - the last thing needed in the Middle East.
Today's news adds yet another dimension. Now we have Turkish warships threatening Israel and we see that their planes are now equipped to attack Israel - all at a time of escalating rhetoric.
The epicenter is on the brink of exploding.
53 comments:
Scott >>>>
The logical conclusion is this >>>>
Turkey wanted to get at the JEWS a
while back with the 31 MAY 2010
flotilla incident BUT could not
due to the NEED to reprogram the
F 16 fighters. Amazing how Erodogan
could keep this a secret so LONG !!
THAT is why they were stalling all this time.
makes sense right ????
THIS is getting dangerous....
The dollar is REALLY starting to rally and BIG pressure is on
the EU to stop a Greece default.
I am thinking if TURKEY causes
problems, Netanyahu will order
the IDF into action at once.
At that point WW 3 is likely.
Stephen >>>>>>>>>
Agree with Stephen on this one. Turkey appears determined to be the match in the Ammo dump.....and Israel has no choice but to stop someone determined to provoke a confrontation.
Once the first shot is fired, it could be Katy-Bar-da-Door all over the ME in 2 hr to 2 days time.
Turkey has no idea how hot those matches are.....and unfortunately, I don't think Israel is fully aware either.
Syria, with their military already on war footing, could come into play real fast here. It would instantly solve the internal rebellion problem. Damascus, I'm afraid, should not be investing in Green Banana futures when Turkey opens that box of matches.
Your Will Father, not ours, be done.
Caught that too, Stephen. There's a preordained time for all this to culminate and if one thing or another jumps the gun, God manages to throw a wrench in the works. I really don't know how anyone watching all this can deny we're nearing the end.
It looks to me that this is round two brewing with Turkey. It shows me that Gog-magog is going to come right on the heels of Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 episode. Interesting that we are seeing the second war possibly heating up before the first round starts. So if we are seeing Turkey take the lead in the Ezekiel war how close are we to going home...tha is of course assuming this is the precursor to this Biblical battle.
I think it is indeed! Praying for all in the middle east and for the unsaved. Unbelievable times we are wathcing. I am so glad God has given me a front row seat.
Israel is described in Ezekial 38 as living in Peace prior to the Gog/Magog War . . .so it's not easy for me to reconcile that in my mind, WVBorn56. Seems there would need to be a little time between the two battles described in Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Maybe even enough peace to begin constructing the Temple. But something else I'm struggling with . . .there's every indication that Russia is an enemy to Israel, yet they aren't involved in conflict with Israel until Gog/Magog . . .so why would/Should Israel become complacent in peace before the Gog/Magog war?
Hey, Scott. Several weeks ago my Sunday School was going through the seven feasts of Israel and how the Spring Feasts all corresponded to the death, burial and ressurrection of Jesus followed by the sending of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentacost. When we got the the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanna) we discussed how it's very likely that the Rapture would occur on this day one year (possibly this year). Since then God has re-lit a fire in my spirit, and He has drawn me into a mindset of watching for His return. I began searching for any kind of blog dealing with prophecy being fulfilled in the news and found your blog. I want to thank you for being faithful with this and helping bring me encouragement that our Saviour is coming back for us very soon.
Also, what are your thoughts on the possibility of the rapture happening on Rosh Hashannah?
Again, thank you for this blog, brother.
Robin, perhaps Israel feels a bit more peaceful when all those terrorist pests (mostly Arabs as described in Ps. 83) are out of the way. But who knows. I guess that is what makes watching all this come down really interesting.
Hello Robin
Actually,Ezek does not say Israel will be living in 'peace'(shalom). The word 'Betach' is used and it means 'security'. Today there are no towns or villages built with walls as they were only a few hundred years ago - with todays weaponry, walls are not a defence.
After being vulnerable and scattered throughout the world, Israel now has control over her own security for the first time in 2000 years. imho; Israel is absolutely living in line with Ezekiel as 'peace' is not a prerequisite to the Gog war. :)
Maranatha!
Very interesting, Expected . . .thanks for that
Robin wanders "carelessly, unsuspecting" into the hotly contested issues of the P83/I17 - E38-39 time-line, and the meaning of "living in 'peace'" => [carelessly, unsuspecting]...
"...I have a problem with E38 following closely on the heels of P83. I think it will take at least 1-2 yrs of rebuilding and wealth-building to tick off the Russians..."
"...E38-39, will add to the world-wide horror and panic of such a devastating world war that leaves that hated Israel as the undefeated nuclear power, and the world will scream "Never again!", and clamor for one who can negotiate an end to this world madness..."
There is much more, but I'm having trouble getting my notes back outta the hard drive...ever since I stuff all that paper into the drive , that round spinning thingy chewed some of them up before it stopped spinning...
;-D
Anonymous,
My family celbrates the biblical feasts and I can tell you that I have never seen so many prophetic events line up in one month (Sept.) in my life. All of my fellow Messianics believe this is a VERY significant feast.
Signs in the heavens are unbelievable later this month during the Feast of Trumpets and the UN vote. Revelation 12 will occur in the heavens with Virgo and Draco playing out this scene:
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Also, blood red moons are our Father's way of signaling events. See Mark Blitz's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi78PmRX46Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player
We are about to see several blood red moons occur on feast days in 2013 and 2014. Please know that the feast days have MUCH significance.
Oooo! Ooooo! I wuz able to extract and unravel a little wad of paper outta my HDD, and looky wut I found...
"...With Israel in a secure position of economic and military power after Ps83-Is17..."
"...The Suez will belong to Israel..."
"...What if it should be, that after a quick and decisive Ps.83..."
;)
Robin, in ref to my posts, and contrary to wut Scott says, I'm not really all that conceited [Ok, maybe just a little...], there are others here and elsewhere on the net that have excellent thots on the issue, I just happened to have all these little scraps in my hand right now and I kinda recognized the handwriting...
;)
Once The Isaiah 17 coalitions weakens Israel and we see Turkey all geared up and getting ready to go Iran will take no convincing... and the sneaky Russians who all along have been preparing Iran will be ready to jump in for the gas and oil off the coast... once they see the bounty ready for the taking...
To me it is all being set up to play out quickly with one war (Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 scenario adversaries of nations that immediately surrounding Israel) follow by the gog-magog coalition of outer band nations in Ezekiel ready to collect the plunder and put what they think will be the final nail in the coffin of Israel...but God as we know has other plans...so sweet!
The question in my mind is this it? Are we witnessing the build up to the final epic battles that usher in the return of Christ for His bride with His refocus on the nation of Israel and the Jewish people?
I know the rapture could be at any time but it sure looks like it is going to occur right before the start of the tribulation.
We may be very very close folks. It is great to be a watchman! Come Lord Jesus!
(So sorry for all the very long run-on sentences)
Anon, here's Brad's Rev.12 link ELENIN & Prophecy: 'Fulfills' Revelation Ch.12 on 9-29-11
DrNofog.....THANK YOU!
Brad,
The more I studied this particular Feast, the more I'm convinced that He's coming back on that day, whether this year or one soon after. Learning that it was referred to as "the Feast that no one know the day or hour it begins" really sealed it for me. When Jesus said, "No one knows the day or hour..." the disciples would've picked up on that. That'd be like me saying, "I can't tell you when I'm coming to see you, but Jingle Bells will be involved." Maranatha! He is coming soon!
My name is Seth, btw.
Seth,
I'm so glad you discussed this in Sunday School. Most of my church friends pay little attention to the feasts.....yet I believe they are the Father's timeline. Eddie Chumney is another really good resource for understanding the feasts at www.hebroots.com So nice to get to chat with you this afternoon.
Brad
Just my quick thoughts (I'm on the run as usual and only have a sec)--- I agree that many of the things that Jesus did, especially during passion week paralleled the Jewish feasts and I also agree that there are many parallels through the new test.
Having said that - I believe that the Rapture will occur on a completely random date, unrelated to the feasts.
This is more of a hunch than anything and those who believe that it WILL fall on a "jewish date" may be right.
We'll see - hopefully soon :)
Exactly Sue :) Exactly! This portion of Ezekiel 38 does not imply peace. Ill have to come back...4 hours of work ahead...gotta go.
God Bless You Sis!
Hey, so it's not cancer, but there's still the possibility that her kidney might need to be removed. It's a "serious infection", but at least it's not cancer.
Dylan, that's really great to know that it's not cancer. Maybe the doctors will be able to develop a game plan for her treatment that does not involve removing a kidney or long term dialysis treatment.
Scott, I can see arguments for and against the rapture falling on a Jewish feast. What I still keep tucked away in the back of my mind is the observance of the Feast of Tabernacles, of both Jew and Gentile, during the millenial reign of Christ as indicated in Zechariah 14:16-19.
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
So with that in mind, why wouldn't the rapture fall on a Jewish feast or festival?
Its not really a scriptural thing so I can't really defend it - but to me, because the Rapture ultimately represents the union of the Bride and the Bridegroom - in that context, I don't see that 'date' as overlapping with a significant "Jewish" date, as the Jews are not considered the same as "the Bride". I believe this is one area where there is complete separation between the Nation of Israel and the Church. Again, I can't defend this scripturally (at least not directly)...
Also, I'm not at all dogmatic about it. I would only be dogmatic if DrNo steps in and begins arguing with me, in which case I automatically become dogmatic:)
DrNoFog . . .I think I'm going to concede to your notes . . .my gut tells me you're right (or at least that's been my thought for some time).
Brad . . .I think there could be something to ELEnin, and even something to the Virgo sign later this month. However, I can't go with it's fulfillment of Revelation 12 for the simple reason Revelation is very chronological. There's a reason for that. Those left behind after the Rapture will need a reliable blueprint for what to expect. Since the Church is long gone by the time events of Revelation 12 occur (prior to Rev. 6), I think it's safe to say, while it might make for an interesting show, it won't fulfill Rev. 12. If it does, then we were left behind LOL
Scott, I agree that the Rapture isn't tied to the Feast of Trumpets. When Jesus was talking about the trumpets in Matthew 24, he was describing his 2nd Coming (at the end of the Tribulation) not the Rapture. In Romans 11:25 it says:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Which would appear there's a predetermined NUMBER of saved Christians and when that number is reached, then the Rapture will occur. Not on a specified feast day, but ANY day. I do tend to believe it will be sometime between the Isaiah 17/Psam 83 battles . . .and the War with Gog/Magog described in Ezek. 38/39
Robin - We're on the same page and I was trying to remember that scripture from Romans (and I was in too big of a hurry to look it up) - so thanks a bunch for finding that -
that scripture referencing the fulness of the gentiles also makes me see a random date for the Rapture.
I also can see the scenario of the gathering up happening between these two epic battles.
Geared, she said they might still have to remove it though.
Thank you so much for the update Dylan. She still faces an ordeal and we will continue to pray. The Lord has been faithful to remind me of the mom woth Mrsa and your friend.
In Him,
kr
Would Israel trade Palestinian statehood for a building permit on Temple Mount? My guess is "Yes".
Michael, I'd bet no. Firstly, Palestinians want all or nothing and absolutely won't go for losing their stake in Jerusalem. With 3/4 of the General Assembly on their side, they don't feel they need to make any concessions.
But secondly, the majority of Israelis are apathetic and rebuilding the temple simply isn't that important to them . . .yet. But I think after Israel takes out it's neighbors in what can only be seen as a God thing, they'll begin to realize the. Importance of the temple and the defeat of those blocking such an endeavor will afford them the means.
Michael
I believe that the agreement for the rebuilding of the Temple comes after Gog-MaGog, and the surrounding enemies of Israel will have been almost completely defeated by God Himself. I also believe it will be part of the covenant of Dan 9:27
Scott; the 'feasts' were designed specifically for Israel and only concern his dealings with God's 'wife' Israel.
The Church, the bride of the Son, came into existence because when Pentecost came (the giving of the law to Moses) Israel had rejected her Messiah and the promised 70th Weeks came to a halt at the 69th Week.
Meanwhile, we are in this 'Mystery' not mentioned in the O.T. UNTIL; the clock begins once again and kickstarts the 70th Week.
Geared. Zechariah 14:16-19. concerns the Messianic Rule on earth by the son of David the Jewish messiah. The Church is IN Christ ruling with Him via ISRAEL thus fulfilling the Jewish feast.
God bless :)
Maranatha!
Morning Brothers and Sisters, :)
Let us look together at what Gods Words says :)
World War 3- The only description from God that clearly states anything like a “World War 3”, takes place at the end of what Jesus referred to as the “Great Tribulation” which is the 2nd half of the Trib. Until then, He tells us nothing of a “World War”.
Rosh Hashanah- Matthew 24 is for both the Tribulation Jews, and the Church, similar are the Feasts for the Church. They are both for our observation, but not required for us as we are not under the Law. Just as Jesus fulfilled Passover, there is no question He will fulfill Rosh Hashanah, but it will be on no date that man sets. The Jewish calendar has been changed many times over the centuries, by the Rabbis. We can and do know the “season”, but not the day and the hour.
Isaiah 17 & Land- The only land that God tells us within the context of His description of the Isaiah 17 war, is a portion of Jordan. He only says Jordan, which is amazingly, where the fleeing Jewish Believers will go for safety at Mid-Trib.
Isaiah 17 will be the stage setter for the Ezekiel 38-39 war. Israel will be weak and extremely vulnerable, and have barely survived, as God tells us. Isaiah 17 will leave Israel in a primitive state, just where God wants them. God does not tell us that Israel will be rich land owners/ oil barons etc., It is not about “wealth” or “oil”. God knows very well what oil is, and what wealth is, and His Word says neither within the context of Ezekiel 38. He tells us just the opposite. It is for His Purpose, it is He that allows and orchestrates Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38. Isaiah 17 is God taking Israel down to nothingness, in order to reveal Himself fully and restore His Covenant with them in the quickly following Ezekiel 38 invasion/war. Israel is defenseless against the on coming invasion, and that is exactly what God wants. It is all for His Glory, and His purpose He tells us.
The Temple- The Temple will be rebuilt during the Trib., and they will build it unmolested by their enemies. After the Isaiah 17 war, quickly followed by the Ezekiel 38, there will be little of Israel’s immediate enemies left to object. In addition, God tells us that He reveals Himself to His People in Ezekiel 38 , and after thousands of years, restores His Covenant with them. After God Miraculously Delivers them from the Gog invasion/war, and reveals Himself fully to them once again, this will inspire them to rebuild the Temple.
God Bless!
DrNofog
I try to stick to what is absolutely known, as speculations are only hypothetical at best – not wrong, as I see no harm at all in questioning and reasoning.
The fact is, the need for Israel to be living in peace is not presented by Ezek. The ‘spoil’ is what the world fights for, and that is fuel to keep its lifestyle ticking over; that has to be oil and gas.
The land, once wasted, is a valuable resource toward feeding the world; but it’s not just physical spoil, as the spiritual desire to own the holy place of Jerusalem is far more important to Rome than to Islam. Papal desire to be resident and ruling from Jerusalem has been freely declared – so what greater ‘spoil’ than Jerusalem itself.
Islam attacks first for their reasons of hatred toward the Jews and ownership of the land even if it means letting it go back to the state in which Israel found it upon their return in un-belief. Islam doesn’t really need more land, they have more than enough as it is, it’s a matter of power, control and un-bridled, Satanic hatred toward the Jews who they want annihilated come ‘hell or highwater’.
Islam had a ‘deal’ with Hitler, when he had killed all the European Jews, go to Palestine and help Islam kill all the Jews in the middle-east. Islam would have their victory over the Jews as well as the Mosque of Omar (which is not even mentioned in the Koran) and Hitler would have handed Jerusalem to the Pope on a plate if he had succeeded in his holocaust.
We know that Islam fails in phase 1, so phase 2 is brought into play as soon as they like; as there is no problem concerning the ‘recovery of wealth’ for ‘spoil.
This is why I see no need for a delay between Psalm 83… and the Gog Magog war.
Nuclear fuel? That is also an assumption built on newspaper exegesis; I don’t think it is unreasonable to put it forward, but all that is known for certain, is that the weapons will burn.
Hypothetically, if there was an EMP attack, then an army would have to resort to more traditional weapons and we know that Lignastone burns. Three of my Uncles used to bring home off-cuts to burn on the fire, and it lasted for ages. One of my Uncles had a photo taken alongside a huge propeller he had helped to build out of what we called ‘Permali’. That wasn’t long ago as he worked part-time well into his 80s, in fact he died at his work place.
For the technically minded:
http://www.permali.com/permawood.html
Permawood® (also known as Lignostone®) is a laminated densified wood according to the DIN 7707 and IEC 61061 standards.
It consists of beech veneers which are joined together using synthetic resins that harden under pressure and heat.
Permawood® is characterised by the following properties: low specific weight ; good electrical insulation; withstands high mechanical loading; good slippage; low and high-temperature resistance; resistance to abrasion and wear.
Key to identification:
The required grade for a specific application is defined by:
Densification symbols : L = 0.75 to 1.05 g/cm³; M = 1.10 to 1.25 g/cm³; H = 1.30 to 1.40 g/cm³
Lamination : I= parallel; II= crosswise ; X= tangential
Veneer thickness : 1 = veneers < 2 mm; 2 = veneers >–2 mm
Type of resin : without character = mechanical types; E3= electrical types
An example for identification of one of the standard types: LII/2-E3 = low density – crosswise lamination – with >–2.0 mm veneer – electrical type
We also supply special types for applications with particular requirements!!!
Just to add a wee bit to Sister Sues wonderful explantion of Ezekiel 38:11 :)
Ezekiel 38:11
11.And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
God describes His People as being "at rest" followed by the enhancement of "dwell safely". Why "at rest"? At "rest" from what? They will be recovering from the horrendous Isaiah 17 war, which leaves them helpless, severely wounded, and vulnerable to the Ezekiel 38 invasion. They will have God, and God only to save them.
Ezekiel looked into the future at Israel, and saw no "defense" walls around the many cities (villages) of Israel. The walls of Ezekiel’s day, wouldnt stop missiles or anything else for that matter, in today’s world. In addition, a "village" in Ezekiel’s day, without walls, would indicate that they have no enemies - no need for defensive walls, they were secure.
God Bless! :)
Thanks so much for all of that Mrs C - I agree with that whole analysis.
Mrs C
I agree!
I have been prepared to consider ‘spoil’ as meaning something physical, such as oil and gas, but I really favour the reason is for ‘God’s purposes’. Vs 4 “…And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth…” surely implies reluctance; and also being turned ‘back’ may suggest their involvement behind the Isaiah/Psalm war, and aren’t too keen for further involvement – but God.
Vs.12 I am convinced that the ‘spoil’ involves Jerusalem itself. The ‘cattle and goods’ are evidence of permanent, Jewish settlement in the land, and that is what Islam resents.
Vs.13. ‘Spoil’ is an assumption, a question, as others are asking ‘is the spoil of goods your reason for the invasion’? It isn’t a definite, clear cut reason imo.
As the nations are specifically listed, led by the North, the armies are limited therefore not applicable to World War.
When a/c is revealed, possibly activated as a result of these dreadful battles; the bargaining chip will again be about the burdensome stone of Jerusalem and The Temple imho.
:)
Mrs C
Concerning ‘at rest’.
If you check Gesinius’s Lexicon at the Blue Letter Bible site re. Ezek 38:11
There are Scripture uses that speak of ‘shaqat’ or rest, being CAUSED to rest and to allay strife.
Considering the survivors of Israel, after this battle, will consider that all their foes are now destroyed, they would surely feel justified to be at rest while they lick their wounds?
Hey Everyone ! :)
Popping in again...
After the Isaiah 17 war, Israel will be left in a primitive state, absolutely helpless to the coming Gog invasion. Israel has just barely survived He tells us, and are having to gather wood like a Third World nation. That is exactly what God wants, and is His Purpose for His People, so that it is only Him that can save them which He makes very clear. He does not say His People were mighty, powerful at the beginning of this invasion, if it were so, God would say it, and He doesnt. Israel will stand helpless, seeing the coming invasion, just as a storm gathers. There will only be God to defend them, save them, that is His whole Purpose for orchestrating this. No nukes, only as He tells us, it is He that will cause all of the death and destruction, be it fire and brimstone, than so be it. No man will be allowed to take any credit for the defeat of Gog and his forces. I used to believe a lot of Ezekiel 38 was allegorical, but it is truly literal. God means what His says and says what He means. Remember, this is God showing Himself, revealing Himself for the first time in thousands of years! ALL of the Glory will be to Him! and no one else.
How do we know this is literal, from His Word?
• He tells us time and again in Ezekiel 38, that the invading Gog forces are on horses. He tells us that the birds will eat not only the horses, but the CHARIOTS. Tanks cannot be eaten by birds. Chariots are made of wood, and wood soaked in blood and flesh, would indeed be eaten by birds.
Ezekiel 39:20
20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
• He tells us that these invading Gog forces will be carrying small armaments, and He instructs His people in the clean up after this Ezekiel 38 war. These are not a mighty Israeli army, these are city dwellers that go out to the dead enemy. He tells us exactly what they pick up from the dead enemy, and this is why He says His People will “robbed” those who “robbed” them.
Ezekiel 39:9
9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Ezekiel 39 is very important to read. It is amazing, beautiful, and it is like listening to Gods private conversation with His People after the horrendous war. He Commands His People to do specific tasks, and yes, even to commemorate the day. It is ALL about revealing Himself once again, after thousands of years…restoring His Covenant with them…He tells them that He will never “hide His Face” from them again…He will “pour out His Spirit” upon them…and we the Church…are gone! As the Church and His People are mutually exclusive to Him, all along they are separate, even to the very end. Jesus Himself tells us this, when He says that Judgment is separate for the Jewish People…
Matthew 19:28
28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
God Bless!
Your very welcome my Brother Scott:)
It is a privilege for all of us to fellowship in studying His Word!
Yes Indeed Exactly Sister Sue! :)
If it was oil, then the other nations wouldn’t be questioning why Russia went in? Massive oil in Israel, would be obvious to all, and they would say, "well of course, they're going in for the oil". It is not obvious to the other nations, and they suggest physical items.
Other nations, don’t know why, they are asking and guessing as to why Russia comes against Israel. As in verse 12, they start off by stating "a spoil" in verse 13, then list all of the things that can be plundered concluding they would all in total be a "great spoil". What are listed is common looting that occurs with the soldiers. Which is why, in Ezekiel 39:10 , the Israeli people, they come out of their cities, take back what was plundered from them from the Russian dead soldiers. God instructs the common people of the cities to come out, and to take back what was taken “plundered”, and that is not carrying away oil from the enemy dead.
Ezekiel 39:9-10
9.And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10.So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
What starts all this? an "evil thought". Oil, an evil thought? Revenge, anger, hatred is an "evil thought". Russia will have lost billions, (not to mention they have a Naval base in Syria) and those fleeing survivors, that Russia is an ally to, will come running to them and will demand revenge. The Scripture states its for more than "plunder", it is to destroy the Israeli people.
Ezekiel 38:12
12. to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land.
"Stretch out your hand" , "Against the people"...
Yes Sis, I completely agree. By the end of Ezekiel 38-39 God is back with His People, and fully restored His Covenant with them. They now have HIS SPIRIT with them, and are prepared for the Tribulation to come.
This is indeed the time for the ac to step in to confirm some kind of agreement, as the world having witnessed all of the horrendous death and destruction will insist on it. Zola Levitt once said, this could very well be the time that the ac says something like this to Israel (speaking of the time right after the Ezekiel 38 war) “you were lucky this time, next time you may not be so lucky…sign this and we will guarantee no more war etc.”. The Temple may very well be part of the deal…we Sis…we don’t have to worry about any of that “stuff” cuz we’ll be gone!
God Bless You! Big Hug :)
Sue Said -"Considering the survivors of Israel, after this battle, will consider that all their foes are now destroyed, they would surely feel justified to be at rest while they lick their wounds?"
Ok,wow, this is a Holy Spirit moment! :) Those are the exact words He impressed upon me, and I would type in posts, for sometime now. Yes indeed, they will be trying to recover...indeed "licking their wounds"! Lord YOU are Awesome!
Mrs C said
"Ok,wow, this is a Holy Spirit moment!"
Ok,WOW, yourself; I read this and got goose bumps right down to my toes!
I don't recall reading this any where; it only occurred to me after I read your post about 'at rest'.
I checked the Hebrew and it seemed an obvious conclusion.
This is TOO MUCH, to do with Israel, and her returning to The Lord for the Church to still be present imo. If she were still here, then there would be a massive influx of Jewish believers into Christ's Body as a result; but I don't see an allowance for that except in the 70th Week when the remnant recognises that Jesus is indeed the Messiah, and as a nation now in belief, finally ask Him to return? Luke 13:34,35.
(((Blessings abound and huggles right back)))
Dear Sister Sue, :)
This is great! I didnt look is up, too much of a simpleton here :) Just a few years back, The Holy Spirit got me, when reading His Word "at rest". Wow, it was amazing, and He has done that with other Scriptures in Ezekiel and Isaiah 17. And the "licking their wounds" is not in the Scriptures, but thats what He continually impressed upon me. :) I used to get into some heavy discussions at lets say, another board, and those words are what He gave me to use.
This Sister, is whats known as a double witness! lol He gave the same to you, and He gave the same to me. Wow, this is the Joy of the Lord, little though it may be to some, its a wonderful, and makes me giggle!
After all, we invite Him, we welcome our Father, our Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They are all here with us, just as was Promised. We are so Blessed, and so grateful to Scott. Thanks to the willingness of one of His Faithful Servants, Scott, who says "yes Lord", and is obedient to Him, we all share the Blessing of great fellowship.
God Bless You Sis! And huggles (that’s so cute!) to you too!
Matthew 18:20
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Thank You Jesus for being here with us this very moment and always!…we are so grateful to You forever!…we simply Love You Lord with all of our hearts forever!
I'm just so ready to go home to be with my Lord. There are times when I selfishly just want Him to come back and rescue me from this world that I'm just so sick of; but He always reminds me that I still have work to do. I still have the Great Commission to follow through with, and I can't ignore it. I pray that we all remember to keep our eyes focused on Him remember that time is very short and to let that fact motivate us to action. Lord, Jesus, don't let us become complacent and stop sharing the news of Your sacrifice for our sins. Make us bold and give us the words to say, like Your Word promises You would in Luke12:11-12. It's not us, but You who receives glory. Come quickly, Lord. We love You. Amen.
Amen Anon - thanks for that :)
I keep thinking there are some items being overlooked[?], glossed over[?], misunderstood[?], and some assumptions are being made that puts the cart before the horse...
"...Israel will be weak and extremely vulnerable, and have barely survived, as God tells us..."
"...Isaiah 17 will leave Israel in a primitive state..."
In Ref to I17:13, There are many places where God has used individuals and nations to execute His will, and then flatly declares "I, YHVH, have done these things." I notice that vs 14 follows 13, the current assumption [based on rhetoric and intel from both parties] is that it ends with Israel destroying Damascus, and by implication, being the instrument of God in rebuking the nations in v13.
The only other assumption is that God does 13 & 14 Himself in some supernatural fashion, but He doesn't say how, as He clearly states in E38-39.
I see Israel suffer casualties, but I don't see anywhere where the majority of their infrastructure is so devastated that they in a "primitive state".
That assumption is based on implying that Israel's opportunity to have & burn free firewood means they are out in the backyard cooking over a fire-pit 'cause the utilities are off...
Yet this is not found in I17 that they are primitive and burning wood for survival, but rather, it's at the end of E39 when they get this free gift and we are told they won't hafta use up their natural resources as a result:
"9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire..."
And it does sound like some of it will just be "set on fire and burned" out in the fields just to get rid of it [waste is not characteristic of desperate survivors].
"...And I will turn thee back ...surely implies reluctance...and aren’t too keen for further involvement..."
"...Considering the survivors of Israel, after this battle, will consider that all their foes are now destroyed, they would surely feel justified to be at rest while they lick their wounds?..."
Con't.
Pt2
I fully agree. That "all their immediate foes are now destroyed" after I17, -"surely feel justified to be at rest" would only be true if they felt that the outcome of I17 is "fair warning" to the rest of the world to back off!
I think Russia's reluctance indicates they are not at all sure that Israel is outta ammo. As stated before, I think the whole world will be in horror and fear that the 1st use of nukes and/or WMDs will lead to all out WW3 and yet they will be hesitant to take any action against Israel in spite of their hatred of her, and they "will scream "Never again!", and clamor for one who can negotiate an end to this world madness..."
"...People will “robbed” those who “robbed” them..." Where it the text does it say "...take back what was plundered from them from the Russian dead soldiers..."
The assumption being made here it that Gog & Magog has just plunder Israel and after the dust settles the enemy themselves are now being plundered. That cannot be found in the text as they are destroyed on the mountains upon entering Israel, and never get the "chance" to plunder... They came TO take spoil...
I think it is far better in keeping with His Word that God is looking back thru the centuries of all the nations, just like Syria in P83/I17, that have plundered and persecuted them wherever they dwelt.
"...Oil, an evil thought? Revenge, anger, hatred is an "evil thought"..."
Yet if we follow it vs by vs, it is listed as "To take a spoil, to take a prey [slaves], to turn thine hand upon the places, and the people, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil"
"...God knows very well what oil is, and what wealth is, and His Word says neither[?] within the context of Ezekiel 38. He tells us just the opposite[?]..."
Yet again, God only lists the above, anything else is conjecture.
Of course, this is all just conjecture on my part [or is it...] but hope this helps a little.
Very very interesting DrNo. I could see things playing out as you described.
Hi Dr. No :)
Nothing “glossed over” etc. no “nehhhhinng of horses before carts here :) My goodness, a lonnnnggg post to respond to after finishing work for the evening. Ok, lets jump into this :)
“In Ref to I17:13, There are many places where God has used individuals and nations to execute His will, and then flatly declares "I, YHVH, have done these things."”
Yes, He has orchestrated both Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38, and they both have different Purposes for Him. Isaiah 17 is God allowing Israel to be brought to their knees, He is not yet fully restored with them yet. He is setting the stage for Him to fully restore His Covenant with them in Ezekiel 38.
“ I notice that vs 14 follows 13, the current assumption [based on rhetoric and intel from both parties] is that it ends with Israel destroying Damascus, and by implication, being the instrument of God in rebuking the nations in v13.”
Yes, forgive me, but Verse 13 has nothing to do with Israel “Rebuking” God clearly says that it is He that is doing the “Rebuking” of the nations surrounding Israel that “rush in” to finish her off after the devastation that He tells us happens to them. God Himself is stepping in at the end, to “rebuke” the nations, not Damascus. Vs 14 Is God summing up the event by referring to Damascus being gone in less than one day. In simple words, He is referring to the primary subject of the beginning of His description of this entire event, by concluding with the primary subject which was Damascus. If He says “God shall Rebuke them” it is He that shall do it, as He makes it very clear that Israel is in no condition to even fight. That is why He has to step in at the end, or they would not have survived.
“The only other assumption is that God does 13 & 14 Himself in some supernatural fashion, but He doesn't say how, as He clearly states in E38-39.”
Forgive me again, but there is not an assumption, only Gods Word, and God clearly “rebukes” these nations Himself. He does “say how”
Isaiah 17:13
13The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
Psalm 83 is the Prayer, and Isaiah 17 is Gods answer to that Prayer. Isaiah 17 is the beginning, the beginning of God returning to His People, but not yet in full . Ezekiel 38 is when He fully restores His Covenant with His People, and fully reveals Himself to them.
(Continued)
“I see Israel suffer casualties, but I don't see anywhere where the majority of their infrastructure is so devastated that they in a "primitive state". That assumption is based on implying that Israel's opportunity to have & burn free firewood means they are out in the backyard cooking over a fire-pit 'cause the utilities are off...Yet this is not found in I17 that they are primitive and burning wood for survival, but rather, it's at the end of E39 when they get this free gift and we are told they won't hafta use up their natural resources as a result: And it does sound like some of it will just be "set on fire and burned" out in the fields just to get rid of it [waste is not characteristic of desperate survivors].”
Forgive me again, but I cannot join in having a sense of humor about this. There is no Scripture in Ezekiel 39 that says they are burning anything in fields. Israel will have fought a horrendous war, and with the “desolation” God speaks of, Israel will not have any “natural recourses”. What is clear, is in His Word, what does He say? Israel will be devastated, by the end of Isaiah 17, He barely allows His People to survive!. “Desolation” and “day of grief and of desperate sorrow” that is the state of Israel at the end of Isaiah 17. Ezekiel 38 immediately follows, and this is for Gods Purpose. He comes forward at the end of Isaiah 17, and He is in the process of returning to His People. God makes it very clear the conditioned of Israel they will be barely hanging on. What is God saying here? Ezekiel 39 is God instructing His People of what to do, and how to do it. It is clear, He is telling them they will not have to take wood out of the fields or cut down trees (followed by a coma ) for they shall burn the weapons. That is combined in one sentence. God says the burning of the weapons replaces any gathering of wood from a field or cutting down trees, otherwise He would just say that they will burn the weapons. Why instructed them that they will not have to take wood from fields or forests if they weren’t already doing that. They are not just burning weapons for no use. Combine this with the Gog forces on horses, as Gods Word says several times, and it is primitive all the way around.
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire..."
Ok…gotta get some rest…to be continued…:)
God Bless !
Dear Dr. No (continued) :)
"...People will “robbed” those who “robbed” them..." Where it the text does it say "...take back what was plundered from them from the Russian dead soldiers..."
Ezekiel 39:10
10.So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
(plÅn'dÉ™r)
v., -dered, -der•ing, -ders.
v.tr.
1.to rob of goods by force, especially in time of war; pillage: plunder a village.
2.To seize wrongfully or by force; steal: plundered the supplies.
“The assumption being made here it that Gog & Magog has just plunder Israel and after the dust settles the enemy themselves are now being plundered. That cannot be found in the text as they are destroyed on the mountains upon entering Israel, and never get the "chance" to plunder... They came TO take spoil...”
No assumption here, only Gods Word. He says it as quoted above. He has His people “rob those who robbed them”. In context:
•He calls His people out from their cities- common folk not some mighty Israeli army but those who “dwell in the cities”
•To do what? Burn the weapons. What weapons? the weapons that the enemies were carrying- small armament. The enemies are not alive, they are dead He just killed them. It is His People that are removing weapons, and “rob those that robbed them”.
•This is hands on, God says “ALL the people of the land shall bury them” This is after they have removed the weapons, and then taken back what was taken from them.
Ezekiel 39:9-10
9.And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10.So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 39:13
13.Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
Forgive me, but the Russian lead coalition does not just suddenly appear in the mountains of Israel. They have to travel to get there. The mountains of Israel is where God “brings them” in order to destroy them. “will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel”:
God tells us they enter from the North. This is a common entry to Israel, that has been used by enemies of Israel for centuries. This entry to Israel, leads them straight down the center of the mountain ranges, the spine of Israel.They are traveling through the the land, as God tells us He brings them up to the mountains. There is no great Israeli army to stop them, because they were devastated in the Isaiah 17 war. They have nothing, which is exactly where God wants them. He also tells us that they are on horses, which is obviously slow moving. It is classic behavior of a marching enemy, to rape, rob, plunder as the go through areas. Russia's did the same to as they, in recent years, invaded Georgia. God tells us that He instructs His people to take back what was taken from them.
Gotta go for now...be back...:)
God Bless You Brother! :)
Mrs C
"...ALL the people shall bury …"
I think it is normally the job of the Levites – the Priests that took care of that nasty. In this instance, it may suggest there aren’t enough of the Priestly tribe left alive to manage this huge task of burial; so all hands to the burial party, as all that remain, whatever their position, have to help make up the numbers?
:-\
Yes Indeed, Exactly Sister Sue :)
It will indeed be the common folk burring the massive amount of burials, as God Commands them to do.
God tells us it will take 7 months to bury them all, which for us, is unimaginable.
It very well could be that a lot of the Levites have perished, but since God is calling everyone out to bury the dead, I would say its more that they are overwhelmed, and need everyone to help.
God then says that then the task will be for men that they hire. He then goes on to describe that as time progresses, should anyone see any “bones”, they will be marked (note not touched but marked) for collection.
This is just amazing to me! We have all seen the horrendous videos of the aftermath of terrorist bombers in Israel. The awful task of securing the scene, and collecting whats left of innocent people. Has anyone every noticed the men in orange vests at these scenes, sadly with bags? They are members of a group called ZAKA - Zihuy Korbanot Ason, literally: Disaster Victim Identification. Most are Orthodox Jews, and “assist ambulance crews, aid in the identification of the victims of terrorism, road accidents and other disasters, and where necessary gather body parts and spilled blood for proper burial. They are dedicated to ensuring that the bodies of Jewish victims are buried according to Halakha, Jewish law”.
As it is considered “unclean” for a Jewish person to touch a dead person, after the initial massive burials, “ men of continual employment “ are hired to collect any “bone” found. Just amazing, ZAKA in present day, does the same thing, for the same reason!
Ezekiel 39:13-16
13.Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
14.And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
15.And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
16.And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
God Bless Sis! :)
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