Thursday, December 16, 2010

The New Roman Empire: Crisis=Change?

It seems that the EU is making prophetic related news almost daily now.

We have observed their increasing military plans, and their initial entry into border control with military units which are prepared to enter regions for various emergencies and areas in which borders are an issue. We've also seen their continuing and growing interest in the Middle East, and most recently their interest in securing the Gaza borders.

We have also watched the Euro crisis, and the bailouts of various countries which have created a great deal of instability in the entire EU concept, particularly the Euro currency.

Within all of the above - we know from biblical prophecy that we will have a change in which the revived Roman Empire of Daniel 2 and 7 will morph into the "10 Kings" stage as described in Daniel 7:24 and Revelation 17:12.

Many of us contend that this transition from the EU -->10 Kings would only occur as a result of some kind of crisis. The details of this evolution into the 10 Kings phase are not described in biblical prophecy, so we are left to observe and speculate on how this will happen. The idea of a crisis precipitating this change is indeed speculation, but it is based on traditional models of epic changes taking place in established governmental structures.

To shift from a existing structure such as the current EU model into something such as the "10 Kings" would typically be based on some kind of crisis forcing such change (or, perhaps an incredibly strong leader who forces his will for big changes - that must also be considered).

However, for now, such a leader doesn't exist on the world stage, so for now, we watch for the various crises that engulf the EU and wonder if such crises could precipitate the changes needed to morph into the "10 Kings".

That takes us to today's news:

Year of bullying, bluff and bailouts leaves euro fighting for its life

Only 12 years after it was launched to great fanfare and after early success, the euro is fighting for its short life. Two of the 16 countries using the currency have had to be bailed out, despite the ban on such rescues in 1992's Maastricht treaty that created Europe's monetary union.

Following the traumas of Greece and Ireland, Portugal may be next in line. There are worries about Spain.

In Brussels tomorrow the leaders of 27 countries, as well as the heads of the European commission and the European Central Bank, gather for their seventh EU summit this year, all consumed by the crisis surrounding the single currency.


This meeting should be VERY interesting, and we will watch closely for developments coming from this summit.

The air of rancour and pessimism is pervasive. Bitterness is widespread, particularly among the smaller EU countries and those who feel they are being bullied by the most powerful.

"There is no appetite anywhere for another Franco-German plan to save the euro," said an east European government minister.

Jean Asselborn, the foreign minister of Luxembourg, went further: "I can only warn Germany and France against a claim to power that shows a certain overbearingness and arrogance."


Now we see recognition of "the crisis":

The crisis – a delayed impact from the banking and financial collapse of 2008 – crept up and took EU leaders unawares, starting in the Greek government's confession late last year that its predecessor had been cooking the books for years and that its public debt and budget deficit were careering out of control.

Tomorrow's summit caps a year of unprecedented trouble, with the leaders expected to agree on a new permanent European stability mechanism replacing May's ad hoc emergency fund from 2013. But the EU's leaders are gambling, crossing their fingers and praying for good fortune. No one knows if the gamble will pay off.

In a paper in July, Jean Pisani-Ferry, director of the Bruegel thinktank in Brussels, noted: "In Angela Merkel, the EU has a de facto leader, but one who was not prepared for leadership."

But there is no doubt Merkel is calling the shots, however ambivalently. The main business of the summit is to try to shore up the euro by changing the Lisbon Treaty to establish the stability mechanism.


This article is long, but fascinating and well worth reading. However, one more quote is potentially very telling:

Another new book, meanwhile, is heading up the Christmas bestseller lists in Germany. Save Our Money, an anti-euro broadside by Hans-Olaf Henkel, the former boss of the German equivalent of the CBI, argues for splitting the currency north and south, strong and weak.


Not sure what this means, but is it possible that the "split" described above could create a 10 nation block of the "strong"?

That is something else worth watching closely.

In related news we see this:

Street violence, trade union demos cast shadow on EU summit

Fresh, extremely violent riots in which the Greek finance ministry was set ablaze and an ex-minister was beaten and left with blood streaming down his face rocked Athens on Wednesday (15 December).

Anger at EU-IMF-imposed austerity is boiling over in Greece.

Some 20,000 workers according to police and 100,000 according to organisers marched through the Greek capital and descended on the parliament as part of a union-co-ordinated 24-hour general strike. Furious protestors threw chunks of concrete, bottles and molotov cocktails in pitched battles with police, who responded with tear gas. Demonstrators launched fire bombs at the second floor of the Ministry of Economics, setting the entrance alight.

The Greek violence comes in the context of wider social unrest in Europe in recent days.

In a different set of well-organised and peaceful protests, trade unions on Wednesday also organised a pan-European day of action designed to fall ahead of Thursday's EU summit, which will tackle the latest EU response to the financial crisis.

Events were held in Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Ireland, Luxembourg, Slovenia and Spain.

Commenting on the recent upsurge in violence, Mr Monks warned that the EU's chosen path of austerity "will be marked by greater social unrest, more nationalism, more protectionism."

"There has been an upsurge in militancy and social unrest. There's something new going on," he said.


And finally, this commentary reveals interesting information:

Danger! EU aid!


The punitive amounts of interest the Irish will pay on the EU “loans” they were forced into accepting are beginning to emerge.

As for that European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism (EFSM), the one created on the dodgy legal base of Article 122 of the Lisbon Treaty, this aid too is being charged at an extortionate 5.7 per cent.

Ireland, which has no money and was not allowed by the EU to give a “haircut” to the banks that fuelled the bubble that destroyed its economy, is effectively being fined an interest surcharge of €658 million every year to encourage it to pay back the cash quickly.

Over the seven and a half years of the loan that could well be a punitive surcharge of almost €5 billion.

This is not exactly what most of us would think of as solidarity – as the Irish opposition has noted too.

It’s punishment time, and the EU has also drawn up a savage programme of cuts to social welfare, just to rub salt into the wound. But what exactly are the Irish being punished for?

The EU has become the mechanism by which big countries, such as Britain and Germany, coerce small countries, such as Ireland, in their own protectionist interests.


As stated before, crisis usually results in change, and the EU is experiencing an abundance of crises.

Couple that fact with the fact that biblical prophecy has forewarned us about a big change - a change that dictates that the revived Roman Empire will somehow change into "10 Kings" makes all of this highly interesting.

I believe it is quite possible that we are seeing the very beginnings of an epic transition into the 10 Kings phase. And if that is true, then we are rapidly progressing into the Tribulation - even faster than anticipated.

It seems that lately, there is never a dull moment in prophecy watching. And the excitement comes from the fact that we know what awaits us - a coming Christ - our bridegroom. And He will come for His bride. Its a promise.

24 comments:

hartdawg said...

first of all, i agree that a crisis(es) real or manufactured will cause a 10 nation transition, it wont be a powerful leader because this leader comes to power when its already formed. second,even after the E.U. consolidates itll still be partly strong and partly weak. third,many scholars believe the 10 nations will be global but from daniel 7 its somewhat appearant that the 10 nations will be from one (roman) empire.

Scott said...

Yea, I agree that the 10 Kings could be a global set of unions, including the North American Union (I believe WND just had a couple of interesting articles on the NAU).

In fact, as we have mentioned before, there are 10 such unions in various periods of progressing into unions, with the African Union one that has progressed further than some others...This whole concept of 10 Kings being 10 world unions seems very plausible to me...

Having said that, because (referencing Daniel's statue) of Daniel 2, an the fact that the 10 Kings are still made of Iron and Clay - then the 10 Kings are either ruled by a Revived Roman Empire Leader (aka the AC) - or somehow are still coming from the RRE in its roots, or in its formation. Otherwise, the 10 Kings would technically represent a 5th Kingdom, and we know thats not the case.

So the 10 Kings must somehow come from the EU/Med Union/RREmpire or somehow be based on the RRE, or led by the RRE.

Thats my 2 cents anyway :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Scott >>>>

We already have the 10 kings. have you ever heard of the 5 plus 5 group ?? 5 nations on the North of
the MED Sea, 5 on the South. And Jordan with Dr Masadeh right in the middle. I believe Ahmad Masadeh
is the anti christ, though I could
be wrong, BUT ALL EVIDENCE points
to that.

Please seriously consider this....

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>

Scott said...

Stephen -

I've blogged about that many times! I don't think we can know for sure - but it is most definitely worth watching.

OTOH - this 5+5 grouping, as compelling as it is, hardly seems potent enough (at least at this time in its development) to be "THE" 10 Kings.

Its possible that this 5+5 alignment (also compelling because the 5+5 is very much an "iron and baked clay mixture" to be sure) could somehow grow into the 10 Kings, but I'm just not sold yet.

Some of those represented countries are VERY weak in many respects, and the "union" is also very weak.

But we shall see, and I will be watching their developments as closely as possible -

As I have aid before, I try not to be too dogmatic on things that we are forced to speculate on - and to me, at this point, its still a matter of speculation (albeit VERY interesting).

Caver said...

Interesting, indeed.

I used to have high hopes for the 5 + 5 scenario also, but less so now. As you said, Scott, the 5 ME kings just don't appear strong enough right now and I don't expect their strength to grow much before reversing.

Am fully expecting the Ps 83 prayer to soon be answered with the Is 17 conflicts, resulting in a greatly diminished ME power base of Israel's neighbors.

Oh well, we all agree on one thing for right now.....there are lots of 2 cent pieces to throw around. We each got ours.

Scott said...

Caver
Thats pretty much the way I see it. Psa 83 prayer followed by Isa 16 with both leading into Gog-MaGog presumably.

And the 5+5 is very much worth watching as we don't know how things will evolve. But as you say, for now, it looks pretty impotent.

Anonymous said...

I HAVE VERY HIGH HOPES ON THE 5 PLUS 5 DUE TO THE FOLLOWING >>>>

There is prophecy to back it up, ie, when Daniel speaks of the 10
kings that appear first and then
another one, an 11th one, that speaks boastfully, after that...

also the reference to the people of
the prince to come in Daniel....
well, I checked and it appears that
alot of soldiers working for Titus
were of Arab descent....back in AD
70.......please get the book the
Islamic Antichrist......it talks alot about this.....!!!!



ie

JAN/FEB 2008 5 plus 5 started

then Masadeh in Jan 2010 !!!!

Scott, I think I am making sense..

write soon

thanks

Stephen >>>>>>

Scott said...

Stephen,

Lets keep a close eye on this, and if I miss anything in terms of any developments, please comment here and direct our attention to whatever you may find.

We're watching everything that may be related, and this most certainly falls into that category.

hartdawg said...

stephen...it`s true that many arabs worked for titus...BUT...the soldiers that destroyed jeruselem were in the 10th and 15th legion which consisted of europeans. also,islam will likely deminish greatly after Gog/magog. as the 5+5 nations...after the rapture and Gog/magog the entire face of the middle east,russia and portions of africa will radically change so the 5+5 is a definately possibility. frankly i dont think we`ll be around to find out.

Scott said...

Hope you are right about that last comment Hart!

Anonymous said...

Dear hartdawg >>>

I am not trying to argue here, but
I think we have a conflict of info sources....my sources state VERY CLEARLY that these soldiers were
Arabs.....

but anyway, we will see what happens........

Stephen >>>>>>>>

Anonymous said...

I do not mean to complicate the issue, but Paul is VERY CLEAR in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 when he
explains that the GATHERING of the
Christians, ie the DAY of the LORD
cannot occur until the Man of Perdition is revealed, which I believe is Dr. Masadeh.

This may sound creepy but i believe
Dr. Masadeh will be the victim of
a murder attempt, will be rushed to
an ER room, and come back after that.

(and I saw the beast who had the wound of the sword that appeared to
have been healed)

at that point, the WHOLE WORLD thru
the Internet, ect, will be astonished and FOLLOW him without
question. Every one will then be
talking about the coming PEACE in the
Middle East

that is what Paul said it will be like just PRIOR to the rapture.
1st thessalonians chapter 5.

Scott, please tell me what you think of my scenario....

thanks

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>

hartdawg said...

actually stephen i`m hoping we DONT see what happens. know what i mean? by the way,i saw some site and also heard on the radio that jesus is coming back in may 2011. its this kind of nonsense that makes prophecy students/teachers look like nuts and gives prophecy a bad name.

theyenguy said...

Ian Traynor of the Telegraph in article Year Of Bullying, Bluff And Bailouts Leaves The Euro Fighting For Its Life: Only 12 years after it was launched to great fanfare and after early success, the euro is fighting for its short life. Two of the 16 countries using the currency have had to be bailed out, despite the ban on such rescues in 1992's Maastricht treaty that created Europe's monetary union.

I ask will a third bail out be coming, or even a fourth bail out? I believe that out of a soon coming investment flameout, a Seignior, that is a top dog investment banker, will arise to provide moneyness in a new economic infrastructure. And while Germany very much is declaring its debt sovereignty today, some day soon Germany will be melded together with all the other countries of the Eurozone, into a debt union by the Seignior, an old English word meaning top banker who takes a cut. He and Sovereign are coming soon.

Their arrival was prophecied by the Apostle John. Revelation Chapter 13:5-10 tells of a Sovereign and Revelation 13:11-18 tells of the Seignior.

Scott said...

EYEGUY - thats an interesting scenario. I have always imagined that such a banker(s) would support the AC and bring him to power - as a "puppet" to them - only the AC would then rise to power on his own. The idea of such a banker being the actual individual himself is interesting...

Stephen - Masadeh? Enlighten me because I don't believe I know that reference - who is that?

I think most of us believe that the AC won't be revealed until after the Rapture - that is certainly my view, and most of the folks I associate with - based on the same scriptures - but you have to enlighten me on Masadeh!

Expected Imminently said...

Hello SCott

Revelation 17:1 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received NO KINGDOM AS YET, but they receive authority for ONE HOUR as kings with the beast.

All the EU countries have been around for yonks! Whoever these 10 kings will be, they cannot exist yet as when they do rise it will be for a short time with a/c ruling.

Maranatha!
Sue

Expected Imminently said...

As I am English AND olde; I thought to stir up me old brain cells and chuck in a ha’pence worth of opinion.

A Seignior was a feudal lord in the medieval period; in England it began after 1066 via the Norman conquest i.e. of French Nobility not an old English word (I think it was a Spanish interpretation?)

This was after King Harald copped an eyeful of French arrow and England was defeated.

They held the right to wear a sword, but this meant they had to raise an army if the king needed one. They had rights of privilege over their land tenants like raising taxes, and holding courts - generally being a pain in the neck to the local vassal’s.

Much like today really.
Sue

Scott said...

Sue

So, are you saying that you don't believe that the 10 Kings will be formed until the Tribulation begins - based on Rev 17:12?

Thats an interesting premise, but I always interpreted that as meaning that they don't have any power outside of the AC's power - based on the following scripture:

"They will have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast." (17:13) -

In other words, they don't have any power or authority, except to support the AC. - They never actually "receive a kingdom" - because the "kingdom" is the antichrist's.

However, you may be right - I just don't know. Might be worth some more digging.

Also - even if that is true (the ten kings don;t get formed until the Trib) - we could see the beginnings of the formation on this side of the Tribulation - or perhaps see the beginnings of the 10 kings formation.

Interesting premise though...

Sue - on another note - I really look forward to meeting you post-rapture - please save me a seat at the wedding supper so I can come by and have a chat !

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Scott
As long as you don’t mind my being constantly served tea, with a little milk, no sugar with every course, I should be delighted to have your company at the marriage supper of the Lamb! :)

Now I have had a bit of a scratch, and considered why you supposed I thought the ten kings would emerge during the seven years. I don’t think that, not at all. I wonder if you thought I meant this because of the verses placement in the Revelation.

Revelation 17:1 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received NO KINGDOM AS YET, but they receive authority for ONE HOUR as kings with the beast.

In John’s vision, the angel is redirecting John’s attention back to the beginning. These ten horns of the beast, which is a conglomeration of the previous beasts, grow out of its head just like the ten toes emerge from the iron and clay feet of the great image. They don’t seem to be any known countries, but a different set up that affects the whole world. This is still PRE Tribulation.

Suddenly this small horn grows out from between the 10 horns (or ten toes) making an eleventh. The small horn is the revealing of the a/c as he exercises his authority by confirming a covenant. This is when the 7 year Tribulation begins and when a/c overthrows three of the ten ‘rulers’. (Conquering and taking peace from the earth as he rides in on the white horse).

So I see an end to the present form of the EU which consists of ancient kingdoms because the ten horns have not had any power previously, and when they do ‘come up’, a/c will quickly come on the scene and they will rule with him for an ‘hour’- sixty literal minutes, meaning a very short period of time.

Daniel 7:12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. (Perhaps 18 months, as vs.25 is time, times and half a time = 3 ½ years?)

This seems to confirm the power base for the world rule by a/c, which is IRON ROME (Bronze Greece, Silver Media-Persia and Gold Babylon) who are the previous three beasts Daniel saw. That’s what I think – don’t mean I’m right!
Sue

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Scott
As long as you don’t mind my being constantly served tea, with a little milk, no sugar with every course, I should be delighted to have your company at the marriage supper of the Lamb! :)

Now I have had a bit of a scratch, and considered why you supposed I thought the ten kings would emerge during the seven years. I don’t think that, not at all. I wonder if you thought I meant this because of the verses placement in the Revelation.

Revelation 17:1 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received NO KINGDOM AS YET, but they receive authority for ONE HOUR as kings with the beast.

In John’s vision, the angel is redirecting John’s attention back to the beginning. These ten horns of the beast, which is a conglomeration of the previous beasts, grow out of its head just like the ten toes emerge from the iron and clay feet of the great image. They don’t seem to be any known countries, but a different set up that affects the whole world. This is still PRE Tribulation.

Suddenly this small horn grows out from between the 10 horns (or ten toes) making an eleventh. The small horn is the revealing of the a/c as he exercises his authority by confirming a covenant. This is when the 7 year Tribulation begins and when a/c overthrows three of the ten ‘rulers’. (Conquering and taking peace from the earth as he rides in on the white horse).

So I see an end to the present form of the EU which consists of ancient kingdoms because the ten horns have not had any power previously, and when they do ‘come up’, a/c will quickly come on the scene and they will rule with him for an ‘hour’- sixty literal minutes, meaning a very short period of time.

Daniel 7:12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. (Perhaps 18 months, as vs.25 is time, times and half a time = 3 ½ years?)

This seems to confirm the power base for the world rule by a/c, which is IRON ROME (Bronze Greece, Silver Media-Persia and Gold Babylon) who are the previous three beasts Daniel saw. That’s what I think – don’t mean I’m right!
Sue

Expected Imminently said...

Correction
Revelation 17 verse 12 (not 1)

Last night I was too tired and this morning I was too tired! :/

So sorry.

Sue

Scott said...

Sue
Thats exactly how I like my tea!

Anyway, I see things pretty much as you described - I can't disagree with anything - I believe the "one hour" is referencing a brief period of time (something inside of 7 years) - as a contrast to the previous gentile empires who ruled over Israel for much longer periods (Babylon, Medo-persia, Greek, Rome)...

I knew you mean verse 12 -

Oh - you much have missed our inquiry into whether or not you were trapped in that bar for a week or so in the snowstorm....We were speculating on that :)

Drinking ONLY tea of course......as it were...

Expected Imminently said...

TRAPPED IN A BAR!!!

I'm going for a gander.

Expected Imminently said...

DrNofog and Scott ‘read a story that several people were trapped in a pub for over a week?’

Tea-hee, titter, titter, I need’s a bit o shade when I gets light headed. :D

Sue
xx