Iran buried on Monday a senior military officer it called the "architect" of its missile defenses, killed in a massive explosion at a Revolutionary Guards' arms depot that authorities said was an accident.
Officials said the accident happened as troops were moving munitions at the base west of Tehran and have denied suggestions that it may have been sabotage. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called for better observance of safety standards at military sites.
"Martyr Moqaddam was the main architect of the Revolutionary Guards' canon and missile power and the founder of the deterrent power of our country," Hossein Salami, the deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards, said in a eulogy at the funeral, state broadcaster IRIB reported
Western intelligence source told TIME magazine Monday that the Mossad was behind the explosion at the Iranian missile base. "Don't believe the Iranians that it was an accident," the official was quoted by the the US magazine as saying.
TIME: 'Mossad' Behind Iran Explosion
"Mossad," the Israeli international intelligence agency, was behind Saturday's explosion at a missile base next to Tehran, in the estimation of an official Western intelligence source cited by TIME magazine on Monday. The official said, "Don't believe the Iranians that it was an accident."
Iran has insisted that the explosion was accidental and occurred at an ammunition depot, but evidence suggests otherwise. Several sources asserted that the base was home to the Fifth Ra'ad Missile Brigade, responsible for medium-range Shahab-3 ballistic missile.
Western Official: Israel is behind recent Iran explosion
Israel stands behind the recent explosion at an Iran missile base, a Western intelligence source told Time Magazine on Sunday.
"Don't believe the Iranians that it was an accident," the Western official told Time, insisting that widespread assumptions that Israel's Mossad was responsible for Saturday's blast, which killed 17 and wounded 15, were correct.
The official also said that more plans to sabotage Iran's nuclear program exist, telling Time, "There are more bullets in the magazine."
Obama: US will consult China, Russia on Iran
No wonder Israel is planning on ignoring the US with their plans. Russia and China are firmly in Iran's camp and we now 'officially' know that Russia is building Iran's nuclear plants. Why would they be consulted before any "action" is taken against Iran?
"We will be consulting with them carefully over the next several weeks to look at what other options we have available to us," Obama said at a press conference after the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit where he met with the leaders of China and Russia.
Obama said his strong preference was to resolve the Iran issue diplomatically but he was "not taking any options off the table."
On Friday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said its business ties with Iran should not be targeted by any new sanctions, repeating that in any case sanctions were not the solution to the nuclear issue.
'Arab League suspension extremely dangerous'
The Arab League's suspension of Syria is "an extremely dangerous step," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem said Monday.
He added that Washington's welcoming of the Arab League suspension amounts to incitement, a statement echoed by Moscow.
Despite its suspension from the Arab League, a "Libya scenario will not be repeated in his country," the Syrian foreign minister said.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Monday also spoke out against the Arab League suspension of Syria, accusing Western nations of inciting opponents of Assad to seek his removal, Russian news agencies quoted him as saying.
Lavrov also underlined Russia's opposition to imposing new sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program and said nations were whipping up tension over Tehran to impose additional unilateral sanctions against it, the reports said.
Iran opposition to unite with government should Israel attack
Iran's opposition would unite with the government in case of an Israeli attack on its nuclear sites, former president Mohammad Khatami said on his website Monday.
"If there should one day be any military interference in Iran, then all factions, regardless of reformists or non-reformists, would get united and confront the attack," said the cleric, who is a harsh critic of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Also see:
Russia and China 'refuse' to back Obama as they stay silent over Iran nuclear bomb threat
Palestine - UNESCO Membership May Be Unconstitutional
Is the Super Committee's Secrecy Brewing a Rank-and-File Revolt?
52 comments:
Times of the Signs
SYNCRETISM
Author Johanna Michaelsen, taking us on a journey through the Bible, addressed the growing global trend of religious syncretism - the blending of irreconcilable parties (worship of the Creator God with pagan practices), and showed the dire consequences of such.
She explained how the Christianization of yoga, Hindu breath prayers, occult visualization, inner healing, altered states of consciousness, and spiritual chanting and drumming are all inroads to the world of occultism – into the mystery religions where seeking “the hidden things” [occult] is the root, and goal, of becoming “god,” the realization that “we are all gods.”
She stated that New Age teachings such as the “Law of Attraction,” “positive confession, and “sending vibrations” are all rooted in occult [hidden] power. “To worship God as the pagans do is an abomination.”
In other words God hates SYNCRETISM. She quoted several verses to back up the biblical principle of not mixing pagan worship practices with the worship of God.
When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you. (Deuteronomy18:9-14)
And when you pray do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. (Matthew 6:7)
Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord?s table and the table of demons. (I Corinthians 10:20-21)
Johanna went on to say, “Contemplative, Emerging, and New Spirituality claim to be authentic. It is authentic alright – authentic to the occult!” This comes from a woman who once was heavily involved in the world of the occult and demonic power. She explained that this is simply ancient Gnosticism revived for those seeking new knowledge, power, and experience. Johanna talked about an extremely problematic idea that is prevalent in our “politically correct” world today; that as long as we are sincere in our beliefs and practices, we are all right.
She explained how this is nothing more than a lie from the Devil. Jesus says in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
She also pointed out in Genesis 3:5 where the foundation of all occultism and apostasy stem from. “For God knows that in the day you eat of it (the forbidden fruit) your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil.”
It should be forever remembered that the quest for “knowledge” and “wisdom” apart from the revealed will of God is simply an open door for spiritual deception – i.e. occultism, witchcraft, false teachings in the church, apostasy (to turning away from the truth).
Johanna’s book, “The Beautiful Side of Evil” is her testimony of how she came out of the occult.
Cont.
Expected Imminently I love your posts. I am surrounded by this stuff- it is so good to be here. Psalm 43:3 David crys out send forth your light and your truth- David knew it was not within himself. Thanks for edifying the saints!
Turkey to take ‘resolute stance’ against Syria, says no longer possible to trust Damascus
According to Reuters,Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said that Turkey will stand by the Syrian people’s rightful struggle and that the Syrian regime was not to be trusted any longer. (Reuters)
Could it possibly be that it's not Israel that will obliterate Damascus but Turkey? Gary
That's a very interesting question, Gary . . .and not one I've considered before your question. But in reading the judgements regarding other nations in the chapters proceeding Isaiah 17, causes me to wonder . . . if it's not Israel who will destroy Damascus, but possibly God Himself?
Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.
"He will rule them with an iron sceptre."
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in mid-air, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."
I know I keep harping on this issue, but I'm only now becoming aware of it . . .we could be allowing prevailing theories of the day to cloud our reading of His Holy Word, thus, possibly misinterpreting the text.
Hello Robin
I am a bit puzzled by your comment.
I’m sure you realise how important context is. Who, where, what…. Equally important is ‘when’ - the timing context.
The time marker for Revelation 19 is when Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years at the 7th Bowl judgment. He will destroy Gentile rule forever, the a/c and his armies. They will be slain with His sword (Word) that proceeds from His mouth. He will rescue the remnant Israel from certain death to bring them into the Messianic Kingdom.
Isolating verses apart from the whole counsel of God, will result in a false interpretation. You seem to me to be confused over the sequence of events – but – please forgive me if I have misunderstood your meaning as I admit to being extremely tired.
God bless you.
Sue
Hello Anonymous
Bless you for your encouragement!All thanks are due to Scott for allowing me to bring these alerts.
Thank you for the Psalm; that is so precious.
Maranatha!
Sue
x
SUE,
Thanks so much for the posts - always insightful and very much appreciated!
Just as I suspected: Iran is blaming Israel for the whoopsie. Iran is about as predictable as DrNoFog and his spelling alert correction system.
Likewise, Sue, I'm somewhat troubled by yours. I'm sure you don't really wish to stifle free discussion of what we all hold so dear. Kindly scroll up and re-read what I said. I've always thought Isaiah 17 meant Israel would destroy Damascus in one night. But Gary asked a question and rather than off hand say we've all thought, . . .I actually returned to Isaiah 17 in search of a scripture that would set the matter to rest.
But you know what? Funny thing happened on the way to my Bible . . .I really can't do that. So if you could please be so kind as to post the scripture in Isaiah 17 that places it in the context you state . . .as well as where it says Damascus will be destroyed by Israel, I'd be ever so grateful. Because yes, I suppose I am a bit confused of late . . .as I've only just begun to realize that I've been doing a lot of assuming . . .but when I go directly to the scripture with a blank slate, I realize, I really AM assuming :) God bless you, sister.
BOTTOM LINE AGAIN >>>>
various OPTIONS are available for
stocks near term. Stocks were DOWN,
but not even 100 on the DOW.
This RALLY may not be over.
we will see !!!!
BUT, eventually (3) wave down
will get going. It would be
helpful to BREAK 11, 737 on the
Dow......
that would be the sign.....
that PERHAPS major prophecies will
be fufilled. All I see in the ME
right now are THREATS getting bandied back and forth.
THAT would explain why stocks have not yet committed to the DOWNSIDE.
Stay tuned
Stephen >>>>>>>>>>
Dear Sue >>>>
I agree with u EXCEPT about the
inner healing....THAT is REAL...
I know of a number of Christian
people that do this, such as
Ruth Carter Stapleton.....
although i believe she died already.
but inner healing using Jesus is
real.
Stephen >>>>>>>>>>
Scott, one of your men on your 'short list'-Jordan's King Abdullah- is calling for Assad to step down. Hmmm...
Geared - I actually saw that - had the same "hmmm...." that you did...
Also - good comment above on DrNo.....Sometimes I intentionally throw in a typo just to "smoke him out" of hiding :)
Aaaaaahaaaaa haaaa haaaa haa!!... Gotcha!!
Scott said "...good comment above on DrNo.....Sometimes I intentionally throw in a typo just to "smoke him out"..."
"...intentionally..."?!? - Hah!!!
Does that count as a 'fib'?? -->Would that be a 'white lie'?? -->would that put you in 'Purgatory' for awhile, til you repent... Jest musing on yer 'fate'...
;-D
Hello Stephen
Thank you so much for your response.
The snippet of information has come from an article I am posting in portions to aid digestion.
Sad to say, too many people are being deceived by the lying signs and wonders Jesus warned us about. The deception is being validated by the abuse of Scripture, just as Satan did in the Garden of Eden and in confrontation with Jesus when he tested Him using God’s Word – Jesus’ response was ‘get thee behind me Satan’.
Ruth Carter Stapleton who, I believe, is/was a sister of President Jimmy Carter is a very well known OCCULTIST, and has been very affective in drawing people away from the Truth in God’s inerrant Scripture.
Folk assume only God can heal – not so, Satan can, and does heal. The purpose isn’t for love but to pull folk away from obeying God’s Word. The cult of “Christian Science” uses Satanic power on a regular basis. Just one example given by a Pastor in England – his aunt ripped off the tip of her finger while using the lawn mower. She picked up the piece of amputated flesh and held it to the end of her severed finger. Within a short time, the finger was fully restored and she continued mowing her lawn. This is common practice, even to the point of people who have been officially declared dead, and have returned to life - done by Satanic power.
Accepting such things as Inner Healing opens a door into the occult and demonic spirits are freed to influence individual lives in many different ways.
That’s the bad news, the good news is that people caught up in the occult and recognise they need to be delivered from it; can put their faith/trust/belief in Jesus Christ to save from Eternal Death. When they decide to believe in Jesus, they are instantly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and instead of their dead human spirit, they are given a brand new, born-again human spirit with which they can now commune with God.
Those already saved, who have been deceived, need to take this very seriously indeed. They MUST change their mind about their actions (repent) and confess their sin before the Father in order for Him to forgive them so they can receive CLEANSING from unrighteousness. 1John1:9.
Without this repentance, the Father will begin to discipline a life in order to bring His son into fellowship with Him who is Holy. If a fallen from Grace son persists in sinning, whatever it is, the Lord will eventually give them over to that sin until there is no way back into FELLOWSHIP with the Father.
This can result in a premature death to prevent further damage to themselves and others affected by their sin.
At the judgment seat of Christ, they will suffer great spiritual loss and all their works done in the flesh will be burned up. Although they themselves will remain Justified, that spiritual loss will follow them into eternity.
Being Justified is ‘stage 1 Salvation’. Once we receive the Righteousness of Christ and are born again; there follows ‘stage 2 Salvation’ which is resisting the pull of the old sin nature – to say ‘No’ to self and ‘Yes’ to God. Once, we were slaves to sin and lost for eternity. When born again, we are expected to be ‘slaves of righteousness’ as we endeavour to be obedient to God’s Word and as we rejoice in His great Love and favour (Grace) supplied via the suffering, death and resurrection of the Lamb of God as our substitute, our UN-righteousness exchanged for His righteousness, for our healing and total deliverance from the wages of sin which is Eternal death.
God be with you Stephen; and bring you into the knowledge of His Peace and Grace.
Sue
Hello Robin
It takes a long time to exegete Scripture properly as most subjects, as in this issue, are spread over several passages and even different subject matter.
You are new to this theory, I’m not, which is why I wanted no further involvement as it ALWAYS results in this kind of resentment and negativity when a word of caution is seen as ‘stifling discussion’. I had hoped to help you recognise the fact that you are ‘barking up the wrong tree’ as Isaiah 17 has no timing connection with Revelation 19 as you seemed to be implying.
However, as you appear to have the time and the energy to waste doing ‘newspaper exegesis’ and wandering up old discarded rabbit trails, who am I to interfere! Please do carry on regardless.
May God bless and guide you in your studies.
Sue
Scott "smoking out" DrNo~hee hee!
Sue said...."It takes a long time to exegete Scripture properly as most subjects, as in this issue, are spread over several passages and even different subject matter"
I have to agree with this %100!
It takes a lot of study, and trying always to keep things in the context they were written, to come up with the best conclusions.
I don't say the absolute "correct" conclusion, because only the LORD knows Prophecy before hand.
I can see that Sue and Mrs. Caver have studied this a lot and I do always look forward to their thoughts on these matters.
Helen
Then, Sister Sue . . .I'm afraid you've misunderstood what I previously stated. Gary asked the question, are we certain it's Israel that destroy's Damascus in Isaiah 17?
Can you find anywhere in Isaiah 17 that Israel destroys Damascus? Because I've read it frontward and backward and can find nothing. So the assertion that I'm taking Biblical verses out of context could be as easily applied to yourself since you apparently don't seem capable of answering my question . . .where, in Isaiah 17 does it say Israel will be the one taking out Damascus?
If you read Isaiah 14 through 16, you'll note, it's God himself doling out the judgements.
Furthermore, if you read Revelation 19, you'll note, it's God's judgement on Babylon, not necessarily the Gentiles you claim. And since Damascus happens to be in what, at one time was part of the Babylonian Empire, respectfully, it's not a stretch.
Here's the thing, Sister . . .before this goes any further . . .regardless of where I am on my journey . . .and where you are on yours . . .it's no reason to use that to excoriate me for expressing a possible theory. Because neither one of us knows for sure, nor will we until He comes, it shouldn't evolve into a personal assault. I simply asked, if it's known for certain, as you claim, that Isaiah 17 was in fact Israel destroying Damascus or could there be another possibility? Why, please, are you so hung up on prescribing to prevailing theory rather than just rely on God's word? Being an expert on Hal Lindsey doesn't necessarily make one an expert on Biblical teachings.
Hello Robin
I am not interested in getting into dialogue on this subject, I am sure I made that plain as I know I said that I am absolutely cheesed off with it as it NEVER results in edification. There is always a very nasty spirit that follows it around and it would appear that nothing has changed.
My intent was only to try and save you a wasted journey by explaining that Rev 19 does not have the same timing context as Isaiah 17; which leads me to say there is no convenient pat answer about Israel destroying Damascus. Much like there is no convenient verse that says God is Triune; it took the Church several hundred years to arrive at that conclusion by exegesis not eisegesis.
Re-checking my comments to you, it is evident that I was certainly not entering into a rebuking criticism that was not even remotely akin to the ‘personal assault’ that you have chosen to falsely accuse me of. It was a friendly offer of advice that in this instance, you may have hopped onto the wrong ‘bus’ and so your destination will be the wrong one.
It appears you are a lady that does not readily take to having your views questioned, so henceforth you can take the scenic route into error without any more interference from me. Without fail this faulty theory always disintegrates into unpleasantness and a defensive attitude. This subject has a very divisive spirit following it around.
As for Hal Lindsey, you are being presumptuous as I am NOT well acquainted with his teachings as you have asserted, you have mistaken me for Mrs C.
For the record I am absolutely sure it is God doing the judging of Damascus – regardless of who lights the fuse.
Hi Sister Robin, :)
Okey, dokey, whewww...this is getting a wee bit ugly. :(
First of all, I believe you are truly attempting to know the Truth of His Word. But Sis, you are attempting to place Isaiah 17 in the Trib, and it is clearly not there. So much gets lost in this communication with the Internet. No facial expressions, tone of voice etc. Again, as said before in the previous thread, please understand that I am not being sarcastic by any means. To try to understand this discussion, I will attempt to explain.
For me personally, it is a test for myself, when I see the appearance of a Sister or Brother going off track, and I suspect it may well be for Sister Sue also. As Sue very correctly stated, it takes a lot of time, and energy to respond, but do so gladly, for Him, not ourselves, if a Brother or Sister is requesting assistance in earnest. :)
Please understand clearly what I’m saying. We are ALL studying and sharing His Word together. Sis, on a previous thread I had responded at length to your question, and it appears you either didn’t read it, or rejected the answer. Either way, I feel I clearly explained why Isaiah 17 is not in the Trib based on His Word, and yet here is another thread, where your post is suggesting that you are continuing down that same path of attempting to place Isaiah 17 in the Book of Revelation aka the Trib.
Forgive me Sis, but several times now, you have mentioned "theories" about Isaiah 17, and I can say to you, that any kind of "theories" for me, has NOTHING to do with it WHATSOEVER.
Forgive me again, but in the previous thread it was you Sis who stated you were "quoting Hal Lindsey", and evidently relying on his statements. I simply replied to your comment.
Personally, I could care less what the latest or greatest book, video etc. says, I ONLY care what HIS WORD SAYS with the guidance of His Holy Spirit! That’s it, HIS WORD is all that matters! Personally, it is the Holy Spirits Witness, His Conviction, as to the Truth of His Word, that is why Jesus said He sent Him to us, to help us! All we have to do is simply welcome Him into our studies. :)
Sis, addressing your question, you have stated you have "gone over" Isaiah 17, and you can’t find the answer as to where it says that Israel attacks Damascus. At the same time, you appear to have already set your mind to your idea that Isaiah 17 is in Revelation. There appears to be a spirit of confusion. Additionally, you had stated that the previous Chapters, it is God applying the Judgments. This is true, but if Sis you read Isaiah 17, God is in action there too, and we are discussing Isaiah 17.
Here it is in a nut shell. :)
Isaiah 17 has not yet happened.
Isaiah 17 does not take place during the Trib.
Isaiah 17 Is very important, it is a turning point, where God is beginning to return to His People. Ask yourself what is Gods Purpose for orchestrating this war?
(Continued)
Sis, forgive me, I have to go for right now, I need some rest. :(
I will leave you with this Sis, that I know the answer to your question, it is right there in Isaiah 17, and in context. Turkey has nothing to do with the demise of Damascus, as Brother Gary questioned. Forgive me, but I truly hesitate answering your question, because honestly, it appears perhaps your mind is made up, a pattern, that some other trails are the answer.
Sister Sue and myself, are no better than anyone else. We are all at different stages of our Walks with Him. I joyfully learn from others, that is what He wants. We all have to help each other, and if He teaches something to someone, they are convicted (I hope) to share. The Holy Spirit gives us each individually, discernment. The test sometimes is patience, and that in itself is a lesson :)
Isaiah 17 appears to be very close. I have a girl, the very beat of my heart, that in the past, I had almost, several times, lost my very life for. She turns 30 today, and we haven’t spoken in over two years. She knows about the Rapture, but is in rebellion as if she was a teen. I would hope that Isaiah 17 was further in the distance, so that I could have more time to reach her, reach others in my family that are lost.
But we can’t change Gods Plans, nor His Word to fit our own needs and wants. We have to Pray like crazy, and Trust in Him for our loved ones...
God Bless You Sis!
Mrs.C,
I so understand about your daughter. I have a son that is the same.
I will pray for you and your daughter, and I would ask that you pray for my son if you think of it.
Sometimes it hurts so bad. Yet, I know that my Redeemer lives....and he will save my son and your daughter.
Helen
Thank you Dear Sister Helen, big hug
Yes indeed, it is immensely painful :( We can hope and Pray that those seeds deeply planted since childhood, will return to them and flourish!
Yes Sis, ALL of our hope is in Him and I will stand in agreement with you Sister, He will Save your son and my daughter! He always makes a way, where there appears to be no way!
It is my privilege and honor to lift your son up in Prayer Helen!
Thank you for sharing the Truth in your encouraging words!
God Bless You Sis!
Luke 15:20-24
20.And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21.And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22.But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23.And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24.For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Thank you Mrs C!
Just reading this I am encouraged that it will happen, and it will happen soon!
Yes, When I pray for my son, I will joyfully include your daughter and we KNOW He will hear and answer our prayers!
I just know it!!!
Blessings to you dear sis.
Helen
Thank you, MrsC . . .I understand you believe Isaiah 17 happens before the Tribulation . . .I've always understood that to be the case as well. But in rereading it . . .as well as the chapters leading up to it. . . .again, it occurs to me, there's not one phrase in there, that I can see . . .that mentions anything about Israel destroying Damascus or that it happens prior to the beginning of the Tribulation. I'm simply asking for what phrase am I missing? So far, no one seems willing to answer that question.
I will add your daughter to my prayer list . . .and would kindly request you please add my son and daughter as well, as they're as lost as your daughter right now and I think the Rapture is so close.
Sue, I understand if you don't wish to participate in this particular topic . . .but please understand yourself, I didn't call you out, you called me out. I simply asked a question for which I need clarification on. Rather than answer my question with scripture . . .you basically say I need to just take your word for it because you've been studying so much longer than I have and that I must be confused. REALLY? Sister . . .is that really how a question someone seeking knowledge about His word should be handled? If you don't know why you have that view . . .you don't have to become involved in the discussion . . .but I'm never going to be good with an answer that sounds like "Because I said so". I just want the scripture that places it in the context you describe. Because, while I've read Isaiah 17 many times, I admit, I was basing it's interpretation from what I've read elsewhere. I even defended the same position you're defending now at my CBS Bible study . . .and now, as I REALLY re-read it in the literal sense, I can't, any longer, say definitively, that that's the way it will be, nor, it would appear, can you. Although I would certainly welcome any scripture you could offer supporting your view.
Hi Sister Robin, :)
Please, before we go further with this, please re-read the post I responded to you in length, as to why Isaiah 17 does not occur during the Tribulation, and is a pre-Trib event. Once we establish that, we can go forward.
Reference comments in -
"Saturday Headlines"
November 12
I will indeed hold up your son and daughter in Prayer to the Lord, as I will Helen's son too!
God Bless!
Sister, this is what you state above:
Isaiah 17 has not yet happened.
Isaiah 17 does not take place during the Trib.
Isaiah 17 Is very important, it is a turning point, where God is beginning to return to His People. Ask yourself what is Gods Purpose for orchestrating this war?
Point one, I would agree
Point two, where is the timeline or any reference in Isaiah 17 that it happens prior to the Tribulation and not in the middle of the Tribulation? Because you see, Sister, midway into the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation begins. . .and the so called peace covenant between the AC and Israel is broken. How do we know Isaiah 17 happens before the Trib even begins? Which verse made that point clear to you?
Point three, the entire purpose of the Tribulation is to bring in God's chosen . . .to complete Daniel's 70th Week that was interrupted by the Church Age. But as I stated in my original question, it could simply be GOD destroying Damascus in one night . . .I'd think the hand of God doing the destruction would get the attention of the Jews far quicker than the Israeli Defense Forces. Gary's question was "how do we know it's Israel"? Indeed, how?
Hi Sister Robin, :)
Point two:
Please, again, did you go back and read my response to you about the same question? It is in the comments for the headline of “Saturday Headlines” November 12. I answered that question for you. They are two completely different events, with very different participants and most importantly, God has very different Purposes for each different event. Please, if you re-read my comments, answers to your question on “point two”, and still don’t understand, then we will take it from there, ok?
God Bless You!
Robin
You are making this up as you go along!
Call you out? What utter tripe! I said nothing about studying longer than you – only that this theory you have just come across is not new to me – or to the blog for that matter, even the internet at large. I did my best to make clear the situation so you wouldn’t feel left high and dry; and your response is this fraudulent scene of mistrepresentation. I said NOTHING about you taking my word for it; that is utterly slanderous.
You are creating a fictitious fantasy over a friendly gesture into a third rate act – and it is nought but a figment of your very fertile imagination. You are what we call a ‘right stirrer’ so much so that you astound me with your audacity. What is your purpose behind setting up these dishonest ‘straw man’ arguments, to feel good about yourself as you knock them over? All the while you still persist in your attempt to draw me into a situation I said from the outset that I want nothing to do with.
How much plainer do I have to say it, I clearly told you that I had, and have, NO intention of answering your questions on this subject, so there is no warrant at all for accusing me of not answering you correctly.
My goodness gracious me woman; you are starting to sound deranged. For goodness sake, get a grip and get over yourself.
SUE
Stop that! Now just stop it, ya hear.
If ya got something on ya mind, say it.
Gal, ya gotta stop this tip-toeing through the tulips and throwing fluff balls to make us figure out what ya're thinking.
Stop holding back and purting things up....say what's on your mind gal. Tell us how ya really feel....stop holding back. Just say it!
'nuff said?
Love ya Sis. :BigHug
Hiya Caver
Its the Woad that does it, when that get splashed all over, me ancient Brit comes out.
Love ya too bro. Big Hug back so just you stand still while it gives it to yer!
Is Mrs C ok? Tell her to rest, its not worth making herself poorly over it, as I doubt her hard work will get a fair hearing.
Smooth her brow and pat the dog for me will ya!
(((hugs)))
Sue
x
Maybe a refresher course on the sermon on the mount would be appropriate right now. Namely the bits about turning the other cheek and doing into others.
G'day Robin I think I understand your delema. I think your at loss as to understand wether or not the Isiah 17 battle has actually happened yet or is about to happen; I know I am. Having not studied history; biblical in particular, I can't see how everyone can say that the Isiah 17 battle is about to begin. What's really needed is someone to show you and me that Isiah 17 is prophetic and not a battle that has already happened thousands of years ago. It's very important for me in particular because I'm too annoyingly annalytical for my own good; I need good solid evidence that this battle has a context for today.
I feel your pain Robin, don't worry about all the angry words because we all forget our manners every now and again. Your brother Dave.
Hi Robin~
I am very sorry for what has transpired today while you are trying to seek answers to your current question on Damascus. Everyone should have a safe place to share, explore and learn Gods word in a loving spirit. I really enjoy getting my teachings here and am still learning much each day. I think Mrs. C has done a wonderful job in laying it out in previous posts. From the posts I have seen here I know she has been pretty sick but is still trying to help in earnest to guide us through these tough questions and topics in these last days. I am learning with you as well. :)
I decided to see if I could find something specific to better help us unpack this a little deeper with the help of the HS. So I prayed and typed in "What does scripture say about Damascus being destroyed prior to the tribulation?"
Of course as you know in our lovely world of the internet many views came up on this. I found this one that seemed to offer a nice prospective and takes scripture as well as other supporting scriptures to give us some further insights. I am not a pro on this, but I believe this is lining up with what Mrs. C has been saying. I hope this will shine some light on the topic. I am looking forward to delving into it some more too.
If this is faulty for any reason accept my apologies up front. I humbly look forward to learning from anyone who has specific scriptures that can better educates us while operating in the spirit of love that God wants us to have as we search our hearts and bibles with the help of the HS. This seems like a well rounded perspective to me.
Have a restful evening and hopefully soon enough we will have many of our questions answered being face to face with our Heavenly Father. In the meantime, know I am praying for all the families here who have lost love ones right now. I am believing the Lord will be sending them back our way after the years of going astray. I believe he is finishing the final touches on their wonderful testimonies that will bear greater witness to those around them. I am praying for us all.
God Bless!!
GG
http://www.eternal-productions.org/PDFS/When%20will%20Damascus%20be%20destroyed.pdf
Galatians 5
"13.For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14.For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15.But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16.This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17.For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18.But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law..........
22.But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23.Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law
Dear Sisters , let's agree to pray for each other and for our children. I also have a son , who is not walking with God. I think he was saved at one point, but I am not absolutely certain. Let's expend our energies on praying for each other's children.
Diane
Amen Sister Diane! AMEN!
God Bless You Sis! big hug
Hi Sister GG, :)
Beautiful post Sis, as usual! :)
God Bless You!
G'day Brother Dave, :)
We know that Isaiah 17:1, concerning Damascus has yet to occur.
Damascus is still called Damascus :) It has been "conquered" by any number of enemies, and still remains "Damascus". Until this day, The city Damacus even boasts in present day, that they are "the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world”.
A bit of history. The Syrian city of Arpad, did not surrender so easily. It took Tiglath-Pileser three years of siege to conquer Arpad, then he massacred the inhabitants and destroyed the city. In 732 he advanced on Damascus, first devastating the gardens outside the city and then conquering the capital and killing the king, whom he replaced with a governor. Damascus continued to be a city. I bring up this point because God, in His Word makes it very clear in Isaiah 17:
•Damascus will not be "conquered”, but rather no longer ever to be a city again.
Isaiah 17:1
1.The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
•It took time (not overnight) for Tiglath-Pileser to conquer Damascus. God, in His Word, again makes it very clear. Damascus will be there in the evening, and then gone by the next morning. Gone in less that a day.
Isaiah 17:14
14.And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.
Hope this helps you Brother :)
God Bless!
Thank you MrsC . . .I humbly and simply don't know how I can make this more plain :) I'm actually a student of history, I already KNOW it hasn't happened. It simply hasn't. It's a well known fact Damascus is over 5000 years old. It didn't cease to be a city by virtue of the fact it still remains today. REALLY :)
My question was . . .and STILL remains :) will it be destroyed BEFORE Tribulation or DURING Tribulation? And will it be by God, as Revelation indicates there will be some major judgements doled out, or by Israel? Either way . . .it's still in the future :) RIGHT?
And Sue . . .if you'll kindly scroll back up and read through the comments, you'll see, Firstly :) I never called you out to answer my question. I simply asked the question here for anyone . . . and you were the first to pop in with:
"It takes a long time to exegete Scripture properly"
"You are new to this theory, I’m not"
"I had hoped to help you recognise the fact that you are ‘barking up the wrong tree’ as Isaiah 17 has no timing connection with Revelation 19 as you seemed to be implying."
"I am not interested in getting into dialogue on this subject"
"It appears you are a lady that does not readily take to having your views questioned, so henceforth you can take the scenic route into error without any more interference from me"
"You are creating a fictitious fantasy over a friendly gesture into a third rate act – and it is nought but a figment of your very fertile imagination. You are what we call a ‘right stirrer’ so much so that you astound me with your audacity. What is your purpose behind setting up these dishonest ‘straw man’ arguments, to feel good about yourself as you knock them over? All the while you still persist in your attempt to draw me into a situation I said from the outset that I want nothing to do with."
and my personal favorite:
"My goodness gracious me woman; you are starting to sound deranged. For goodness sake, get a grip and get over yourself."
***
Was that even necessary if your position is apparently that it's a waste of your time? It's a big ugly world out there. There really should be a safe place Christians can come together in dialogue . . .without being ridiculed for simply asking for more clarification. If you've been studying this so much longer than me, and you have the answer . . .then is the Christian position really to posture and wax on about how the topic's been discussed ad nauseam? Or should it be to just answer the question? And if time is an issue, or you're bored with the topic . . .remain silent? :) Please . . . my church doesn't discuss prophecy . . .this IS it for me. And if it were as simple to just do a search here . . .I assure you I'd surely have done that. I don't need your admonishments . . .or opinions about my state of mind. That, dear Sister . . .takes REAL audacity. Right? :)
Mrs. C . . .I'll look for the comments where you answered the question as apparently, I take it, they're not in this thread? I so wish there was a search feature in BlogSpot . . .maybe I really should take up the kind DrNo's tactic of copying and pasting all the dialogue (maybe not this one) in a running document that's searchable LOL
Ok, thanks mrs c. Dave.
Hi Sister Robin, :)
“Saturday Headlines” November 12
Scroll down to the above
segment. It was on November 12. There are about 40 or so comments I think.
I was answering Daves question about Isaiah 17 as to why its a future event. :)
God Bless!
Your very welcome Brother Dave :)
Its my privilege :)
God Bless!
Robin
In saying that I did not want to enter into this particular discussion; I nowhere, even remotely, suggested that you were not to go ahead as you falsely claim.
Robin said “My question was . . .and STILL remains :) will it be destroyed BEFORE Tribulation or DURING Tribulation? …” (concerning Damascus)
This is exactly what I was trying to help you understand at the onset of this debacle concerning Revelation 19. Whatever YOU want to decide is the answer to Isaiah 17, it is absolutely certain that Revelation 19 ENDS the 7 year Tribulation at the 7th Bowl Judgment at the 2nd Coming. While the specific events that occur afterward in the 75 day interim do not allow for Isaiah 17 to take place at the same time. That is all I was trying to explain; but you chose to take offence where none was intended.
Again you falsely accuse me of saying this issue was a ‘waste of my time’. My reason was plain from the start – exactly what has happened – trouble follows this theory like a bad smell. Quote “That’s me done as I am rather cheesed off with the subject – not with you Robin, just the subject. :-)”
While Mrs C said “Have to agree with you, truly no offense to anyone, but this subject is not my favorite either…” In spite of that preference, you kept pushing until Mrs C gave into your insistent demand for attention.
You wanted clarification on this subject; and I have done nothing to prevent you getting it, except in your imagination, as I made it plain that I was not the one to make that explanation. You say you understand I don’t want involvement and yet you are irked that I have NOT responded complaining that I am preventing that understanding. Absolute nonsense; you have chosen to make a mountain out of a molehill and obviously resent being questioned on your superior knowledge as a student of history. As for being ridiculed, you have done that all by yourself with no help from me.
You were wondering where the other thread is:
Quote “ Mrs. C . . .I'll look for the comments where you answered the question as apparently, I take it, they're not in this thread?”
Mrs C has already informed you on THIS thread which is ‘In the News’ Monday November 14th 2011.
Quote. Hi Sister Robin, :)
Please, before we go further with this, please re-read the post I responded to you in length, as to why Isaiah 17 does not occur during the Tribulation, and is a pre-Trib event. Once we establish that, we can go forward.
Reference comments in -
"Saturday Headlines"
November 12.
Mrs C,
There is a sure-fire way to direct someone to the correct post when you have several posts on the same day:
The time-date stamp at the end of everyone's post is a clickable link. When you click it, it will show up in the URL line like this:
http://prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/2011/11/saturday-headlines.html?showComment=1321186402875#c3942958324644454787 [without the bold, of course], and you can paste it in your post so someone can pop it into their URL line and go directly to the correct post you are referencing.
If you get the hang of linking, you don't have to show the whole long thing in your post, but instead, just a little snippet of what you want the person to look for like this:
"Zola Levitt has a QA section..."
;)
Hello DrNofog
I have literally spent hours trying to do links………! :[
Now this one ... and I can't get the date stamp do anything, other than nothing ...!! :[
This is only for you to know that I have tried, really hard, to take your advice. I shall have to wear this ^ :[
Thanks for trying. :)
EI,
Someone a few months back from England was also trying to learn to do links and apparently the blogger service over
there doesn't allow it...
But just checking again anyway, if you go to the top of Scott's right panel and click on "Jailed Iran Pastor Facing
Abuse", when the article open your URL line should now have
"http://prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/2011/11/jailed-iran-pastor-facing-abuse-torture.html".
If you scroll down to the end of yer 2nd post and click on "November 17, 2011 11:44 AM" the post should jump up to be the top one on yer screen and the URL line should at least now have this:
http://prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/2011/11/jailed-iran-pastor-facing-abuse-torture.html?showComment=1321548252233#c3983516467229317079
If it doesn't, either yer runnin' wif a cheap service or Beegbro has his boot firmly on yer 1st-Amendment neck...Oh! that's right... y'all don't have no 1st-Amendment rights over there.. ;)
And finally, if you drag or paste this into yer URL line:
http://prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/2011/11/in-news_14.html?showComment=1321527077825#comment-c6982341822206215165
it should take you to yer last post to me, and all that means is that your service won't let you do "active" links.
Hello DrNofog
Thank you for taking me through this. You are right, we obviously don't have 'live link' facility. Thats what comes of being on Virgin! Mr Branston needs to stop having adventures, get back to earth and sort his businesses out. His email service is worse than appaling.
God bless
Sue
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