How do the above locations appear in terms of "diverse" locations? All of the above have experienced significant quakes in the last 24 hours, exactly as Jesus informed us for this last generation.
Scott I received what I will call a mild rebuke on another message board for believing the birth pains are now occuring in the church age. The moderator essentially said the birth pains are for the tribulation period.
I countered by pointing out the increase in earthquakes, apostasy, knowledge, transportation and evil just to mention a few that are all greatly increasing in intensity and frequency currently. While in my opinion they will continue during the tribulation they have already more than started.
I was certainly surprised at the mods response since people on the sight are always discussing the increase in birth pains? If not for the birth pains what exactly are we suppose to be looking for regarding Jesus return? "When you see these things occur know that your redemption is drawing near." Was this for the church or the trib saints? I assumed it was for the church. Am I wrong? I guess it could be for both but I thought the trib saints will know pretty much when Jesus will appear for the second coming based on the math of when the 7 year treaty is signed. Thoughts?
WV, I always thought it was for the church. Jesus wouldve been addressing his followers, who wouldve been part of the church. Plus we're seeing an increase in these signs now. Saying that, these signs could increase more in to the tribulation. So in my opinion, the signs are for sure for the church, but they could be for the trib saints too.
Yea, thats based on the premise that the Olivet Discourse only applies to the nation of Israel, for a variety of "reasons", which I don't believe
First of all, I believe the references to those "taken" (v 37-42) are CLEARLY rapture references (I spend a great amount of text to this in "Signs..."
This alone disputes that the Olivet Discourse only applies to the NOI....
In addition, as Arnold Fruchtenbaum points out in "Footsteps..." - the first birth pains came in the WWI era, as all of the "beginning of birth pains" signs began, with a HUGE spike (quakes, world war, pestilence, famine, etc) - and spiked again in the WWII era..
Folks like these mods, have to completely ignore this obvious spike in "signs" (aka birth pains), and IMO, one cannot ignore these two HUGE spikes in the signs that Jesus gave..
Additionally, regardless of how you view "genea" (generation), for Jesus to use that term to describe a 7 year period would be beyond bizarre. There is no way that term describes the Nation of Israel, as it would be an unprecedented use of the word. And if that is the "game" - then you would want to start the timeline in 1948, not when the AC confirms the covenant. So thats another HUGE problem for that school of thought.
Also, we must note that the "Days of Noah" can be found in Genesis 6, and there we see that a generation is defined as 120 years, which is 'interestingly' the same approximate time as a generation in today's world, as there are many people living to between 110-120 years of age. Coincidence? I think not.
To confine the "birth pains" to a 7 year period is ridiculous IMO.
Oh, one more point. A careful reading of Isaiah 66 - recall verse 8, where the quotation expresses incredulity at the fact that a nation could be formed in a day (an obvious reference to 1948). We see
"Yet no sooner is Zion in labor, than she gives birth to her children"
So what we see here is a reference to the fact that the birth pains had ALREADY BEGUN at the time of Israel being "birthed" - because like the rest of the world, Israel was already in "labor" suggesting that the birth pains had begun at the time of Israel's birth.
There is a lot more on this, but the above is a start :)
One more point. Fruchtenbaum does a great job explaining how "Nation against Nation, Kingdom against Kingdom" is an idiom meaning "World War" in the context of Matthew 24....Well, WWI and WWII, by all accounts were the only "World Wars" that this earth has seen in its history.
Why would Jesus had made that reference is the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24) ONLY applied to the 7 year tribulation period? That would be confusing and a terrible reference if indeed He was referencing the Tribulation.
"Nation against Nation, Kingdom against Kingdom" also wouldn't apply to the tribulation as most of the fighting there applies to the Middle East and perhaps the Far East, but not the "world".
So thats another problem with their POV
I just saw on the Fox news home page that 24000 have died in Central America from a mysterious illness. Any thoughts as to what is going on as regards to that ?
I recall running across such a headline but I haven't seen anything else on this....Do you have any links to this story?
Here is a link to the fox news article on the mysterious illness-- causing chronic kidney disease/death.
It helps to paste the link-
I actually ran across this story today and someone was attempting to say this was happening due to dehydration. IMO, thats highly unlikely for a number of reasons. Very interesting from a medical view however.
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