Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Update: Indefinite Detention Bill

Washington's Blog is an interesting site and I often disagree with the views there, but this is a well researched review of the so-called "indefinite detention bill":

The Indefinite Detention Bill DOES Apply to American Citizens on U.S. Soil

Even at this 11th hour – when all of our liberties and freedom are about to go down the drain – many people still don’t understand that the indefinite detention bill passed by Congress allows indefinite detention of Americans on American soil.

A retired admiral, Judge Advocate General and Dean Emeritus of the University of New Hampshire School of Law also says that it applies to American citizens on American soil.

The ACLU notes:

Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens

But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”


Below we see more references

Another sponsor of the bill – Senator Levin – has also repeatedly said that the bill applies to American citizens on American soil, citing the Supreme Court case of Hamdi which ruled that American citizens can be treated as enemy combatants:

“The Supreme Court has recently ruled there is no bar to the United States holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant,” said Levin. “This is the Supreme Court speaking.“

Levin again stressed recently that the bill applies to American citizens, and said that it was president Obama who requested that it do so:


This last comment above leads to a video clip of these statements.

Below we see similar comments:

U.S. Congressman Justin Amash states in a letter to Congress:

The Senate’s [bill] does not even distinguish between American citizens and non-citizens, or between persons caught domestically and abroad. The President’s power, in his discretion, to detain persons he determines have supported associated forces applies just as strongly to Americans seized on U.S. soil as it does to foreigners captured on a far away battlefield.

36 comments:

DrWho said...

Scott- I have told everyone possible about this story and I get one of the following responses:

* Prove it
* It will keep us safe
* I am not Arab, so I don't care.

When I add the fact that the same senate voted 93-7 to decriminalize beastiality in the military, they think I am on drugs.

PETA even came out condemning the change out of concern for the animals. Where is the outrage from the church?

Dave Down Under said...

I'm thinking the church will be too busy trying to stay relevant with modern society.

This is the time when pastors are decide if they are career pastors or called of God pastors. I believe the days of Pastors and preachers sitting on multimillion dollar bank accounts and flying around in expensive jets are just about up.

But that's also a call for us pew warmer's. Are we prepared to form and meet in underground churches? Are we prepared for persecution just in case Christ delays his coming in the clouds? Are we prepared to really be the fair dinkum new testament church who relies on God with ALL OUR HEARTS?

Those are relevant questions which we really need to consider, IMO. I'd be really keen to here Sue's comment on this subject. I believe she has something encouraging and relevant to say from God.

Bless all Dave.

Bless all

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Caver said...

It was interesting reading the history of this bill. Before it was sent to the floor for consideration, it was Obama that quietly insisted that he wanted American citizens included. Before that, we were specifically excluded.

I don't think Obama will be vetoing the bill.....just noise to get it where he wants it.

We have a friend way up the food chain in govt and he warned me about a year ago that Barnie Franks had the homosexual agenda words written and he was going to slide it into a bill somewhere down the line and hope it stayed hidden.

Caver said...

Stephen, Brother, it is not you that ANYONE here has issues with. You are loved and treasured here.

It is your beliefs that draw opposition....not you. You are one of us, part of the family. As we read it, your reliance on the EW are at odds with those in the Bible. Considering the number of people that read this blog, we feel no option but to try and correct them.

Stephen, the Caver household is praying for you right now. We love you Brother!

Caver said...

Stephen, if you want to talk or have some professional help sent your way let me know...you can reach me at email ...

Caleb12@hushmail.com

Mrs.C said...

Stephen, Dear Brother,
Please, please know that I love you Brother, and always have.
I understand you...I truly do! I couldn’t bear knowing you would be separated from us for Eternity Brother! I rebuke in the mighty name of Jesus evil thoughts from you our dear Brother Stephen! Fight Brother, fight those lying thoughts! Jesus loves you Brother! Satan you have no place with our Brother Stephen! GET BEHIND US SATAN! you are the under the feet of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth! you are a thief and a liar! You are concurred! and have NO authority!
Lord Jesus I Pray You cover our Brother Stephen with the protection of Your Holy Blood that you shed for us on Calvary! Cover his heart, his mind and his Soul with your Holy Protection!
In Your Mighty Name, the Name thats above all Names Jesus Christ!
AMEN
Stephen, dear Brother...talk to me please! Here is my email address, please! MrsCaver@Yahoo.com
Hold on Brother, we love you, and more importantly JESUS LOVES YOU!
God Bless You!

GG said...

Dear Stephen~

Please take a moment and step back, it's going to be OK. This just saddens me beyond no end.

Stephen, this is your life and you are very precious to God. It doesn't matter what people think of you. What is your relationship with God at this point? What is in your heart? You have come here seeking and many have pointed out error, that is where it should lie. Not day in and day out with hammering. With your free will you have the right to choose as you wish. I am so sorry you feel this way and please don't do anything rash, OK.

I am praying for you brother. I am enjoying you as you are, right now, as the child of the most high God. Your life is not of any less value than ours. Forget this nonsense. These opinions are just that. That are like (hmmmm..hmmmm's) everyone has one. You are loved and cherished here. Hang in there brother. The pressures of this world and this news along with all you have gone through lately is just surmounting. You too have to assume the role and position you have put yourself in on these answers. It could have diffused and died but you too felt the need to press on as well. It's OK..I think there is slight errors on both sides. I am sure all meant well. You are loved from here. Put that devil under your feet and tell him to be gone in the name of Jesus!

Since you are of the age of accountability, we need to respect Stephen's choices and leave it at that. I can't imagine God will be too happy to continue to be pressing someone who is down. FWIW, Don't even try to attack with the sword like tongues this way. I think this would be a great time for all to step back and re-think what type of witnesses we are being in these last days. It's one thing to deliver the message, it's another to carry on with such disdain or heaviness on another while claiming your doing it for God. However the shoe fits... My goodness what has happened to this board? This is a good example of how the hearts of many will fail in the last days.

God Bless!!

GG

Expected Imminently said...

Dear GG

I am REALLY, very sorry to have to spell this out to you, I have tried not to; but your views about saying and doing nothing is at odds with GODS mandate to the Church and to the world.

There is no wrong time to declare His truth to those Jesus died for; it’s for God’s will to be done GG, not yours.

The fault lies with all this emotional mollycoddling of a soul that is either going to hell or is heading for severe discipline from His Heavenly Father. This is fleshly GG, love and not of Christ.

Why do you ask what has happened this blog?

You joined us when we were already speaking the Truth from God’s Word and NOT from our fleshly feelings of false love. I am sad to say that it is this immitation of love that has invaded this blog and is trying to gag the love of Christ with human understanding that hinders Divine instructions from the written Word.

I hope you will consider Paul’s Word on this subject.

2Timothy 2:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2.Preach the word; be instant IN season, OUT of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all LONGSUFFERING and DOCTRINE.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

What you have been advocating GG is at variance with these, and many other Scriptures. You are advising with your feelings and emotions instead of applying God’s Word.

However, this blog is not mine. If Scott disagrees with my view of this entire issue that I have based upon my understanding of Scripture; then obviously he is free to delete my comments and I shall say no more.

Sue

GG said...

Sue~

Don't you dare put words in my mouth sister, period. What you have been advocating is being an emotional bully towards others for months and justifying the cruelty.

Don't you dare try to minimize your part in this and always romp and stomp others and then want to play the Savior. Are you serious? I am going to stop here as this is Scott's blog. While others may high five you, I don't find it cute, nor need to do a pile on to have friends. It is meanspirited, wrong and cruel. Stop taking everyone's intent and making it yours. It seems to me you have only your views and then everyone else is wrong. You shall look within too dear Sister..I have bit my tongue for a long time but when it comes down to a serious cry for someone's life, serious or not, and you can still be cantankerous in nature, I feel for you.

Still blessing you in my love and his...

GG

Anonymous said...

AMAZING how some people can think
they are PLAYING a JUDGMENT GAME
like you Sue.

YOU KNOW THE SCRIPTURE

JUDGE NOT LEST YOU BE JUDGED

SO WAKE UP

AND LOOK IN THE MIRROR

JUDGE YOURSELF, before you
JUDGE ME , U GOT IT ??

I hope so....

YOU have no mercy

all that comes out of your silly
MOUTH is DAMNATION....

NOT LOVE

PAUL SAID if LOVE DOES NOT FLOW FROM ME, I AM NOTHING....

IS THAT CORRECT ??

then if you judge me, you are
NOTHING....

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>

Anonymous said...

HEY I AM STILL ALIVE

DESPITE my GREAT DEPRESSION

I WANT TO THANK ALL THOSE WHO

FEEL FOR ME NOW....

I WILL TRY TO HANG ON....FOR NOW.

PLEASE DO NOT WORRY

STEPHEN !!!!

Expected Imminently said...

Hello GG

As you appear to see yourself as the matriarch of this blog, please give evidence of that maturity by correcting my behaviour, and my faults via Scriptures, within context, instead of using your own feelings and emotions as you have been doing to date.

I most certainly do ‘dare’ to expose fraudulent maturity; that denies God’s Word by replacing it with subjective feelings in a vain attempt to give Scripture defying advice. When you can prove by your actions that I am mistaken in this, I shall certainly apologise, as well as repent, wholeheartedly.


Hello Stephen

It has been said many times, over and over again on this blog, that judging a persons WORDS, is commanded by Jesus in Matthew 7: 15-23 to prevent the Church from being deceived by false prophets and teachers. False words are the ‘fruits’ of false prophets. While false words of ‘love’ is a very convincing way of with-holding this safeguard by immature displays of emotionalism.

As one who has had life-long clinical depression Stephen, you cannot emotionally blackmail me with a guilt trip as you do others. My way to overcome is by leaning heavily upon God’s Word, and applying it to every part of my life of every moment of every day. If I can do it, so can you, I advise you do likewise.

The very first step is repentance re 1John 1:9. IF you are born again; and if not, then put your trust in Jesus to save you from sin and give you eternal life.

WVBORN56 said...

http://asets.livingwaters.com/pdf/T...Conversion.pdf

Here is a Ray Comfort sermon on True and False conversions to Christ that is extremely helpful to anyone who may be struggling with the assurance of their salvation. This may help to nail it down for you before the return of Jesus.

God Bless to all

GG said...

Sue---

Um...hmmm...I expect this from you because again if you can't run things the way you want through here then your not satisfied. It is not OK no matter what guise you put it under. Tell you what, you go boss others and have fun trying to tear them down instead of helping them, using that lovely style of yours. Let us save this for our private moment before the Lord. I am willing to humble myself and see what is right in the eyes of the Lord once we arrive. I don't have peace about your postings lately so therefore we will move forward in love but I will not be following this style of Christ like teaching as you call it. It is warped on many levels. We will deal with this in front of our Father when we get home.

God Bless!
GG

Expected Imminently said...

Hello WVBORN56

It seems I am destined to make myself thoroughly disliked!

Regretfully Ray Comfort is a ‘new’ Calvinist who is bound by legalism and the ‘works based’ false doctrine of ‘Lordship Salvation’.

This was begun about 20 years ago, by John MacArthur to explain why his Calvinist friend walked away from the ‘faith’ of Calvinism. (I don’t blame him, so would I) He deems his friend not to be ‘genuinely saved’ as his ‘works’ give JM no evidence of his Salvation as he now denies and rejects what he formerly taught with JM. Ray Comfort is his talebearer.

Salvation is by God’s GRACE alone, a FREE gift by FAITH alone, by Scripture alone; which is received by a free will decision based upon the knowledge of the Gospel and accepting Christ’s free offer of Eternal Life. This subject is known as ‘the Gospel Wars’; and is a sign of the end-time deception away from Biblical truth.

JM has twisted the definition of faith which I remember by the acronym KAT = Knowledge, Assent, Trust. JM has invented two kinds of faith, one that is ‘saving’ from the heart and the other false from the mind. However the Greek makes NO distinction between the heart and the mind in the word ‘kardia’; it is a myth to support a faulty theory. Inventing that a person can think they are saved, but aren’t.

Faith in Christ includes absolute assurance of Salvation. However, Lordship Salvation advocates have no such assurance as they think they may be fooled by God into thinking they are one of the elect, but instead he has chosen them for hell! JM has admitted he isn’t 100% sure of his Salvation…. BIG issue and I am tired.

God bless you, I trust you know this isn’t personal.
Sue
X

PS I am not Calvinist OR Arminianist; there is no assurance of Salvation in either view. I am non-denominationalist but fairly close to ‘Free Grace’

PPS Dave DU :)

Sorry to have missed your post – hopefully you have an answer to your question from my latest comments. Emergent pastors are popular, while those of us who insist on proclaiming God’s Word of both heaven AND hell, are very un-popular. Being ‘stoned’ is an occupational hazard.

Praise The Lord!
Sue
x

Expected Imminently said...

Still no Scriptural support for your opinion GG?

The time to get things sorted is here and now. When we stand at the Bema seat, the decision for rewards and the loss of them, will have already been made. Once we arrive, it will be too late to make amends - and that will last into Eternity.

NOW! is the accepted time! 1John1:9

GG said...

Sue-

Giving scriptural support as you can see knowing me is not the problem. It's choosing to diffuse your daily high to fight others. Think about the months and months here while we all are so ignorant here,so you point out... you are fighting daily. Why? You must be getting something out of it? Why?

I am sorry you are going through much too, but we all are in our own ways. Masking things behind scripture is not
the only way to communicate and love others. You come out as this is the only type of interaction you are willing to
have with others, I personally love the soft and gentle Sue.
It's not about being ignorant or spiritually deprived while
speaking to you, it's about sharing, caring, relating and
bonding while we all learn daily. There is only one perfect
person, one Christ and it's not anyone here.

Do you think people would put themselves up for this
ridicule and cruelty they had the answers? Sheezzzz..one can't even post a simple thought anymore to brainstorm or share without it being boastfully sliced and diced by you. That is what has pushed me this far. Today a brother cried out and you stood so cold. I will never forget that Christ like example of love, no matter how much scripture you may know. The fights stop here. Go find someone else to put down. You don't scare me Sue, you sadden me greatly with all this nonsense that can be used in the proper context that Christ would do. No more, Dear Sis, No more.

God Bless!!

GG

ally said...

Whoa there doggies! I Will tell you a weird story and hope it helps. I used to be involved for years in prison ministry. On Sunday nights, we would go to our local inner city jail. We would have to wait to be processed in each week, because they were processing girls out for release.. So we would stand around with these ladies who were waiting for rides. A lot of them didnt have anyone to get them nor did they even have the dollar it took to catch the bus. Oh how the preacher would rail on them about their sinful ways, condeming them, and guess what guys? These girls did not respond well. It would always make me so sad. These girls were getting out of jail, had no place to live, no money, usually had lost their everything they owned including their children. Frequently they had done time becausethey finally defended themselves against an abuser. These women needed love and help, not a lecture about sin. So each week while he was yelling at them, I would ask them if they had needs they would like to receive pray for.. They would wait in line for prayer! And God started moving in amqzing ways. Thats the place I first saw a demon cast out. The HS knocked out 4 guards for about 20 minutes and ever woman in that crowded little room received Christ that night! The Word of God is a very sharp sword and it is a weapon he has given us for warfare. We need that weapon on the battlefield daily! And while it may occaisonally be neccessary to use our swords with brethern, I really try hard to avoid that. Jesus said the greatest of these commandments is to love one another. And I try so hard to do that. I fail miserably a lot of times but I try. Look, we all know Stephen is a little off from what we believe. But that is ok. A lot of people on here are way off from what I believe! LOL! Im sure a lot of you feel that way about me too! What matters is we love one another. We each are working this out with fear and trembling and looking up. We each have different functions in this body of Christ. I know you guys get riled up over Stephen and his error but I bet I get ten times more riled up over people actually thinking the republicans are going to present a viable candidate. And I can't believe how easily ALL of us take the bait that satan sets before us! This is the church that Jesus is returning for without spot or wrinkle? I think not!I don't know about you, but i need to go through the wash of the blood of Christ cycle a few more times ;)Im still working on the basics guys and probably always will be! I cant even seem to get those right yet! I love you all! No condemnation dudes, all forgiveness.

WVBORN56 said...

Thanks Sue for the heads up on Ray Comfort and lordship salvation. I'm not a fan of calvinism and the only part I really agree with is once saved always saved. I didn't see anything about works in the article but could be missing it. Do you agree that there should be some evidence to support that one is truly saved.

Comfort does make an interesting point about Judus in the article. He seemed to fit in and none of the disciples knew he was the one who would betray Jesus in fact he was even the treasurer of the "church" so to speak.

I do believe that one must believe with their heart (not just head knowledge) for a person to be saved per Romans 10:9-10 and the evidence is the fruit of the spirit.

Paul does tell us to examine ourselves to make sure we are in the faith.

The spirit bears witness with our spirit if we are born again.

Christ gives us eternal life but also abundant life while still in this present life. I think this is an exapmle of a transformed life.

He also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I remember years ago a Sunday School teacher asking us if we were put on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict us?

There is a reason Jesus will be seperating the wheat from the tares. He is the only one who can apparently tell the difference. No?

Maybe it is not necessarily a case for salvation in all cases but it may certainly be a case for being good ambassadors for Jesus and working to show our selves approved as an appreciation for our salvation.

I do know there is nothing I can do to save myself. It is all about the grace and sufficiency of Jesus and His finished work on the cross. My hope is in Jesus and Him alone. All praise to His name.

ally said...

Ps I will own a car soon so if possible, i want to try an actually meet all of you. Sue and Dave will take extra effort but I think I could get to a lot of the rst. Im thinking N.C. crew first. It will be easy to spot . Lets make it happen guuys! Just so we have a visual on each other. Yay! Im excited! Also, I cant quite figure all that salvation /works/ fruits deal out yet either. dont even try to explain it. all i know is i love God, my walk is as wobbly at times as a drunken sailor yet he is faithful to sustain me! I love him with all my heart but am tempted sorely and easily vexxed. I think that makes me a human being who loves God. I am not scared about my salvation too much, but am hoping Im good enough to catch the rapture train.

WVBORN56 said...

Ally I believe the salvation train and the rapture train are one in the same... and we see your fruit. :)

GG said...

Stephen-

Thank younfor coming back to let us know that you will be OK. Depression is very real and I don't take it lightly. I am always praying for you and trust all things are going to work out with you. Many things will be made whole very soon. Hang in there. I know some days may be harder than others.

Ally-Thank you as always for your insight. I do appreciate it :). Glad to hear about you getting a car. That will be wonderful for you. You are my ThriftOMamma. You have moved about on very little but have done much as you travel.

God Bless!!

GG

Expected Imminently said...

Hello GG

There is no need for you to be so fearful for Stephen. If you would apply trust and faith in the Word of God, and who He is, instead of practising a Social gospel, you would KNOW not to be so afraid. I have four sons in this situation; as well as myself. Imagine what I would be like if I hadn’t been actively trusting The Lord with their lives these 40 plus years.

1Tim 4:10 For to this end we both labour and suffer reproach, because we TRUST in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, especially of those who believe.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armour of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, AND HAVING DONE ALL, TO STAND.

14 STAND THEREFORE, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints…”

This has been my point all along. All the advice and well meaning in the world is NOTHING without walking with The Holy Spirit being guided by Him in God’s Word. The Social gospel is the curse of the Emergent church. It’s what I call the ‘Judas syndrome’; why waste, time, effort and money on Christ when the poor can benefit from it.

First and foremost, it should not be about what WE can do for Stephen, but rather what CHRIST has done for Stephen; and that includes Ally’s women at the prison. God’s Word must be made known in its entirety. This is the main difference between the Emergent gospel and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. KNOWING His Word is only half of the battle; if The Word is not actually applied/believed/trusted in, then there is no lasting difference in anyone’s life.

I don’t care about your personal insults GG, or your put-downs; you aren’t the first and you won’t be the last. All I am bothered about is for the lost to know the truth of God’s Word and to get God’s Truth into the hearts of His people so they can avoid deception and grow into maturity by applying God’s Word and walk forward, with The Holy Spirits guiding, and STOP all this pseudo, super-spiritual nonsense that has become rife.

That’s what I get out of it; GG, knowing I am in the will of God, what He wants from ALL of us.

Maranatha!

GG said...

Sue-

See right there in the first sentence, see I can't operate in your thinking. I don't Fear, I care. You and I are wasting others time here because you always assume and presume at the onset of your conversations. It will never work like this. You still are not listening but telling others. So, you take your walk and I will take mine with the Lord. Again since we can't get through this struggle, I guess we will lose these rewards if that is what you are implying by taking it to our Fathwr when we get home.

Someone wanting to kill themselves is no laughing matter to me. I wouldn't want that blood on my hands all for the sake of needing to be a right fighter. Let's agree not to talk to each other. Your draining what spirit I have. It will all work out and I am sure God will straighten both of our hearts out about this. For now let's share the love around us with others, keep doing our Fathers will in our own personal relationships with Christ.

God Bless!!

GG

Dave down under said...

G'day Steve I appreciate you coming back to this forum and sharing the way you feel about yourself. Better to do it here than do something you'll regret.
I asked you weeks ago to share something of yourself so we can all get to know "Stephen" as a person. Caver has set the stage so I may as well follow. You can email me if you like on armstrong.david7@bigpond.com.au...or I'm on Facebook as David Armstrong. I'm the dude in the "dad" t-shirt standing beside a brown water tank. That goes for anyone else to. Your all welcome. God bless you Steve and once again great to see you back.

Guys at the risk of getting stoned I consider myself a Calvinist or reformed style Christian. For some really great sites pls go to "a puritans mind.com" and "fire and ice, Puritan writings".

GG like I've already said, you have a great heart and a gentle spirit. Please don't ever lose that.

Alleeeeee I may see you here sister but I will in heaven.

God bless all Dave.

Caver said...

Stephen, thank you so much for coming back and letting us know you're ok.

Don't worry, my friend, we are keeping you lifted in prayer. You do the same, ok? Each and every one of us are praying for you in our own special way and in accordance with our unique relationship with the Lord.

He IS a loving and caring Father and knows how to grow each and every one of us. Don't worry, He's got ya.

WVBORN56 said...

Dave no stones from me but I disagree with a couple of the tennants of calvinism...unconditional election and limited atonement mainly.

II Peter 3:9 makes it clear that it is not God's will that any should perish, but "everyone" to come to repentance.

and I John 2:1-2 Jesus is the propitiation (payment) for not only our sins but the sins of the "whole world". So he did not die just for the elect but for everyone.

Calvinism just comes acrosss to me as cold, dismissing the work/speaking of the Holy spirit and lacks an evangelistic zeal very often.

Most reformed theology folks I know are also not pre-trib and "spritualize" their bible interpretation instead of a literal interpretation. McArthur I believe is an exception to that general rule. He is pre-trib.

I think these are healthy discussions and make us sharper in knowing what and why we believe.

God Bless brother! I'm looking forward to meeting you and everyone else at our heavenly reunion. I'm hoping and trusting it is very near.

Maranatha!

Dave down under said...

I praise God for the people in my life who've helped me in my times of need. I must say the love and compassion of an understanding person has in the past been more helpful than plonking a book in front of me and saying with a stern look, "READ IT"

The capacity for love that God has given humans to share with others is indeed for the comfort and healing of our fellow man. Nothing can compare with the knowledge that I am loved by another flesh and blood human being. Yes being accepted of God is also comforting and thats the icing on the cake. Just my thoughts.

Dave

Mrs.C said...

Galatians 5:22-26

22.But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23.Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24.And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25.If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26.Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


Philippians 2:1-5

1.If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2.Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3.Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4.Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5.Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


Philippians 4:4-9

4.Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

5.Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

6.Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7.And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

8.Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

9.Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello GG

I shall indeed have to leave it there GG, as I shall never understand someone who calls witnessing with the Word of God as 'assuming and presuming'. Rather it has been introducing HIS views, as opposed to subjective opinions on this subject.

Using the Word of God in ANY situation, no matter how tense, isn’t an assault against your sensibilities. This hasn’t been about your ‘caring’, it was to introduce God’s Love and Light into a dark corner, to a man who is at this very moment, curled up in a ball, laughing his head off at it all!

The ‘rewards’ are a fact of Scripture, not an implication. For your convenience regarding the Judgment Seat of Christ. E.g. 2Cor5:10: Rom.14:10.

If you don’t want to ‘talk’ to me GG, that is your prerogative.

P.S. Dave, the Bible is not just any old book; it contains the Life and Light of men. LIVING Words that speak into every heart IF they are declared. Jesus IS The Word.

Dave down under said...

Hi wv that's no problem. I guess I'm exception to the rule to because I dont agree with everything that's taught in the Calvinistic belief system. I believe along the general lines of it because of the way I was saved and the circumstances of it. But anyway I see you in heaven as well, God bless.

Hi Sue I was trying to look at it from an unsaved point of view. Thats how an unsaved person sees the Bible as just a book.

God bless all, great day night what ever part of the world your in.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Mrs C

It has become really cold, but I couldn’t let your appropriate Scriptures pass without comment, so I have made a hot water bottle to sit with before I get under the duvet for the night. :)
I don’t watch Christian t.v., but I see there has been a big kufuffle in the U.K. about the introduction of false prophets to the screen.

Those who abide by the Word have decided to ‘come apart’ as the t.v. people say they are wrong to object because everyone should get along with each other in the spirit of unity and love as in Phil 2:2 'Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind'.

In Isaiah 9:6 one of the names given to Jesus is 'Counsellor'.
Isaiah 40:13 'Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
14. With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and showed to him the way of understanding?'

It seems Paul picked up on this when he wrote 1Cor.2:16
'For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?'

'But we have the mind of Christ'.
This refers to the mind of Yahweh, translated as Lord in the O.T., and Paul places Jesus as Yahweh/Lord in this verse. There being no doubt that to have the mind of Christ is to have God’s own mind which is revealed to us in His Word. So, the only way we can be ‘likeminded’, having the same Love, accord and be of one mind, is by abiding, and agreeing together with The Word.

Without being as one in The Word, it is impossible to walk with one another as Paul directs in Phil.4:8 'Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are TRUE, whatsoever things are HONEST, whatsoever things are JUST, whatsoever things are PURE, whatsoever things are LOVELY, whatsoever things are of GOOD REPORT; if there be any VIRTUE, and if there be any PRAISE, think on these things'.

This can only come if we all abide by what Christ has taught through Paul as in vs.9.'Those things, which ye have both LEARNED, and RECEIVED, and HEARD, and SEEN in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you'.
i.e. these things will operate, and there will be peace with us IF, each one of us abides in The Word alone. Sola Scriptura.

P.S. Dave
Yes indeed! It’s a fact that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. However, there is no other way to be saved from this sin sick world. How will they know if no-one tells them! In and out of season, do the work of an evangelist, if they hear, or if they do not hear, they have at least been given to choice.

Every blessing in Jesus
Sue
X

Dave down under said...

I agree Sue but hopefully you can see it from mine and GG's angle, love counts first IMO and then once the love tank is full then move in for Jesus.

Bless you Sue.

Scott said...

My comments FWIW:

* Before I forget - I'm glad to see you feeling better, Stephen. I'm praying for you.

These kind of threads seem to always take place when I'm out all day, and by the time I sit down to read them, things have pretty much ended and I hate to stir things up.

I've already talked extensively about how I don't really want to be a "board moderator"; its just not my preference of 'job choices'.

Also, I'm loathe to be seen as taking sides and if I weigh in, by definition, whatever I say would be perceived as taking sides.

In that regard - I love everybody that comes to this board (and takes the time and effort to comment) - equally. Looking above I see Sue and GG getting into friction. Well I happen to love both of these sisters a great deal. I have been reading both of their comments for a long time now, and as a result, have great respect and love for both - as my sisters.

I will say that it does make me cringe and it makes me uncomfortable and sad to see it. Some of this is my normal tendency to avoid conflict and strife (to a fault sometimes).

Maybe we should focus on having these discussions in a more "academic" way, w/o anything personal.

Or, I could always make DrNo the resident policeman and strike fear in the hearts of all :)

Scott said...

Oh - and Ally, I loved what you said above (in the long post near the beginning) - so well said. I agree wholeheartedly and appreciate those comments a great deal - thanks for adding that.