We'll see how that works out. Now we see how the Obama administration is trying to take down Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu simply because his administration won't comply with the division of Jerusalem and they refuse to give away more Israeli land:
"More U.S. machinations against Israel"
Apparently the U.S. is making additional demands of Israel, in behalf of the Arabs..
It is demanding that Israel turn over the Abu Dis area, abutting Jerusalem, for the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) to turn into its capital. The U.S. supposedly wants to set a 2-year deadline for negotiation, at the conclusion of which, the P.A. would become sovereign. The U.S. also demands that Israel release 2,000 convicted terrorists.
Baring the whole U.S. strategy provides further evidence that the recent U.S.-Israel rift was engineered by the U.S., primarily in order to get Israeli concessions along the way to the full U.S. scheme for Israel.
As a result of the U.S. scheme, Israel would have no secure borders. So, an Arab alliance is indeed likely, but not to attack Iran, but finally to conquer Israel. The State Dept. will have succeeded in its decades-old goal of getting Israel to surrender enough strategic area so that the Arabs can deliver the final coup-de-tete and the U.S. would be thought to have clean hands
In a related article we see the following:
"Obama pressure creating political turmoil in Jerusalem"
Israel's government coalition may be on the verge of collapse thanks to last week's unprecedented pressure on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by US President Barack Obama.
The left-wing Labor Party, which has more or less stood by Netanyahu until now, has demanded that the prime minister bring the opposition Kadima Party into the coalition in order to mend the current rift with Washington.
Senior Labor ministers said Obama's demand that Netanyahu extend indefinitely the Jewish building freeze in Judea and Samaria had given them the opportunity to test the prime minister and his ruling Likud Party.
The freeze is scheduled to expire in September, at which point many Labor lawmakers said they would have fought hard to extend it. But Obama wants Netanyahu's commitment on the matter now.
Labor ministers say the only way forward considering the current situation is for Netanyahu to kick some of his more right-wing coalition partners out of the government and offer Kadima leader Tzipi Livni enough influence and power to entice her to join.
Israeli commentators have suggested that is what Obama wanted all along, since Kadima and Labor are far more in line with Washington's policies of creating a Palestinian state in nearly all of Judea and Samaria with the eastern half of Jerusalem as its capital.
Fortunately, I have my wife nearby to remind me that God is in complete control over these matters. Thats true. In fact I always want to go back and reference Psalm 33 during times like this:
"The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples.
But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.
From heaven the Lord looks down and sees all mankind;
from his dwelling place he watches all who live on earth -
he who forms the hearts of all, who considers everything they do.
No king is saved by the size of his army;
no warrior escapes by his great strength.
But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him,
on those whose hope is in his unfailing love,
to deliver them from death and keep them alive in famine.
We wait in hope for the Lord;
he is our help and our shield.
In him our hearts rejoice for we trust in his holy name.
May your unfailing love rest upon us, O Lord
even as we put our hope in you"
It is hard to watch these current events - watching the demise of the U.S. - watching the U.S. administration turn against our previous allies while helping terrorists who desire to destroy Israel - wondering when (not if) Genesis 12:3 and Zechariah 12 becomes a factor as a result. Its hard.
However, this is the time to look up and focus squarely on God and His plan for the Church, and for the world. God has a plan and everything that we see happening in the world is part of His divine plan.
As my wife tells me (and she is absolutely correct) - we know how this story ends, and we win. Period.
Our redemption is coming soon!
God Bless and keep looking up!
Interesting development: This came in from Arutz Sheva this morning and is a very positive development--although I was prepared for the Lord to return today or tomorrow (haha just kidding)...
"More than 75 percent of Congressmen in the U.S.House of Repreentatives have signed a letter to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressing support for Israel and demanding an end to the highly-publicized state of tensions with Israel.
Signed by 327 Representatives, out of 435, the letter calls on Clinton and the Obama Administration to settle its disputes with Israel in a non-public and friendly fashion. The current tensions “will not advance the interests the U.S. and Israel share,” the letter states, as “above all, we must remain focused on the threat posed by the Iranian nuclear weapons program to Middle East peace and stability."
The letter was initiated last week by leaders of both parties, including the top Representatives of each one: Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) and Eric Cantor (R-Va.)."
And actually addressing my initial comment above, I'm not exactly a pre-trib guy. While I don't discount the possibility, I take no stance on when the rapture will occur. My position is that a rapture will occur, I just can't state with certainty when.
While that position may sound a bit like an intellectual cop-out, it ensures I am not teaching others something I don't know for sure and it allows me to be prepared no matter what happens.
Interestingly, here is another piece of news from Arutz Sheva from today as well which is very critical of Ms. Clinton's position:
"The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) has written to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton asking her "to apologize to your former New York constituents (when you were their Senator) for having misled them by falsely claiming to support an undivided Jerusalem as Israel's capital." The letter was signed by Morton A. Klein, President of ZOA; Dr. Michael Goldblatt, Chairman, National Board; Dr. Alan Mazurek, Chair, Executive Committee and Steven Goldberg, Esq., Vice-Chairman, National Board.
The letter went on to say, "when you were New York's Senator from 2001 to 2009, you repeatedly stated in speeches and in a September 2007 position paper that you believed 'Israel's right to exist in safety as a Jewish state, with defensible borders and an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, must never be questioned.' Your spokesperson, Jim Chon, even said, 'this paper is a reflection of her consistent policy that hasn't changed."
Thanks for these pertinent comments. I am glad to read where many of our congressmen are firmly in support of Israel - as are so many U.S. citizens. It gives me some measure of hope.
I did not know about the letter from the ZOA - thats awesome. And they are absolutely correct -- So many politicians feign support for Israel when it serves their political needs and then abandon Israel when they don't see a political reason to continue their support. I suspect that Mrs Clinton may fall into that category.
As far as the pre-trib rapture, I believe the scriptures are clear on this.
I would HIGHLY recommend the definitive book on the Rapture, "Maranatha, Our Lord Comes" by Renald Showers -- and urge anyone with interest to get this and read it. He takes the issue in a step-by-step manner and makes his case as would a great lawyer. He takes the scriptures, applies the original greek meanings etc, and in with precise logic makes an undeniable, compelling case for the pre-trib doctrine.
Fortunately, its not a matter of salvation. The differences in pre-trib and post-trib is big philosophically and it does matter --- but given that, we are still only looking at a 7 year difference and historically, a 7 year gap isn't that huge (if this makes any sense).
But to me, the pre-trib doctrine fits the scriptures (in their totality) far far far more than any other possibilities.
Post-trib makes no sense whatsoever (to me) - at first glance - who is still here to populate the Mill Reign? Also with post-trib., why is there no mention of a Rapture in Rev 19, which is a detailed view of the second coming? No rapture mentioned. Also, if the rapture were to occur at ANY point during the Tribulation, why no mention in Rev 6-18, which includes minute detail on the big events during the Trib - yet no mention of the rapture?
As far as the pre-wrath view, Showers has written an entire book dissecting this POV - and its more compelling than the arguments against Post-trib. These are just a few random points, and again, I urge anyone with interest to read this book by showers ("Maranatha...")..Its one of the most scholarly, academic books that you can read on the topic.
Thanks agaon for the comments - its (as usual) greatly appreciated.
I've read all the books Scott and just can't get convinced...
Post-trib rapture I'm much much less inclined to believe because of the verses on wrath. However, just because wrath is occurring on earth does not mean that that same wrath is poured out on believers. Post-trib folks contend that the wrath referred to is not being poured out on the Church or remnant.
Mid-trib is the other position that is compelling. Pre-wrath. Just before Satan is booted from heaven.
It's interesting to listen to John MacArthur (pre-trib guy) preach on Revelation 12 where war breaks out in heaven. He thinks it could be that the war referred to occurs as a result of the raptured saints coming into heaven...
It's worth a listen--gty.org and then just fish to find it. Actually it's phenomenal.
As far as when the raputre occurs, I solely believed in pre-trib rapture for 25 years but I'm just not convinced that the Matthew 24 event isn't the same as the Thess. event. And because all of the theories have holes in them, I'm content to say, I don't know.
You mentioned the holes in mid-trib rapture but pre-trib rapture requires Christ to return -- but then go away and return again.
After studying it extensively, I'm just not able to say with certainty and am quite content with whatever Christ has preordained for it. It seems to give me more readiness as oftentimes I seem to view things through the mid-trib rapture lens as it is the worser case scenario.
He did say we shall have tribulation and if he wants me here for the first part of it (not that he was referring to THE Tribulation necessarily), I will happily witness for him through that dark dark period.
The other thing that runs through my mind a bit is that 95% of the current "church" believes in pre-trib rapture. I'm not sure there is ANY position of the Church that has that degree of unanimity including who Jesus Christ is. I just think that's a little strange.
Again, I'm not saying I don't think pre-trib isn't possible, I just don't think Scripture is definitive without taking a few leaps. I'd rather "not know" and "watch and pray" then take those leaps. I completely understand that there are some people who don't have the same hurdle I have.
In any case, thanks for taking time out to address my comment. Your heart is clearly not one of contention (nor is mine) which is why I expressed my viewpoint. I figure if I'm going to show up here all the time you should at least know where I stand on the issue lol.
I will grab that book though as I love reading all of the views as most are written by blood bought children of God.
We brothers and sisters in Christ can have these differences - as long as we're saved under Christ.
However, I would urge you to read both of Showers books - 1) "Maranatha..." and 2) 'The pre-wrath rapture view".
I would content that there has not been any other books that cover these issues so extensively and so logically and scholarly. Before putting this to rest - please please read these.
Also - The 490 years, declared for the Nation of Israel was stated as being specifically for them - in Daniel 9;24 ("for you (Daniel) and your people"..)
I can't find any other meaning for 1 Thess 1:10, 1 Thess. 5, Rev 3:10 etc than we will be spared form the time of the tribulation. Partiularly compelling is Rev 3:10 which states that we won't be present for the time period of the Tribulation
Also - There is no mention of a rapture in Rev 6-18. I would think such an epic event would at least get some mention in the descriptions of the Tribulation in these chapters.
Also - Rev 4 begins with the words "after this..."...Meaning (IMO) after the church age (has ended)...
Similarly, Rev 19 begins with the same phrase "After this.." - meaning after the Tribulation (moving into the phase of the 2nd coming)
Also - I believe that the "restrainer" of 2 Thess 2 has to be (by exclusion, if nothing else) the church.
Perhaps more importantly and more compelling is the parallel with the ancient Jewish wedding ceremony - as seen in John 14:1-3. Too detailed to post but that whole parallel is a very compelling
view of a pre-trib rapture.
Additionally - if the church wasn't present for the first 483 years of the 70 'weeks' - it seems illogical to me, that the church would present for a 3.5 year segment of this time period - that seems inconsistent and pointless.
More importantly - I don't believe that the antichrist can rise to power as long as the church is present - for "logistical" reasons (we'd ALL be pointing out the obvious) and spiritual reasons.
We'll see - but please do yourself a favor and pick up Showers books - you will see an exercise in scriptural dissection that you haven't seen by any other authors to date - I promise :)
God Bless !
Been up since 2:30AM...with a short nap...Time for bed.
Good discussions today.
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