Sunday, August 25, 2013

War Approaching: The Powder-Keg Middle East On The Brink

Watching the evolution of this mess in the Middle East would be terrifying if not for the knowledge of biblical prophecy. We know exactly what will happen in the future, thanks to God Himself, who decided to dictate to the ancient prophets the events we are watching right now in real time. 

We know that a war will ignite - a war involving Israel and the so-called 'inner circle' of radical Islam, described in the prophetic scriptures of Isaiah 17 and the prayer/petition of Psalm 83. This war will involve the destruction of Damascus. The world will also witness the epic battle/war of Ezekiel 38-39 as the alliance of Turkey, Iran and Russia will lead a coalition including much of Northern Africa into Israel, in what would surely lead to Israel's complete destruction, but God supernaturally intervenes in a dramatic way, so that the entire world will see that God's actions directly saved Israel while destroying the invading forces. Personally, I don't believe the Church will be present to witness this scenario (Ezekiel 38-39), as we, during the church age believe by faith, not by sight (and we know that Ezekiel 38-39 will conclude very much "by sight" as "...and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence" [Ezekiel 38-20], "And So I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord." [Ezekiel 38-23], "I will display my glory among the nations and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them." [Ezekiel 39-21]). 

We appear to be on the brink of both wars occurring and they are approaching at light-speed. The ramifications of this scenario should be obvious to the prophecy watcher:

Western and Middle East powers led by Washington began moving Saturday night and Sunday morning, Aug. 25, toward a first strike against Syria following the Assad regime’s large-scale chemical attack in eastern Damascus last Wednesday. The first targeted strike may well signal the start of a series of US-led attacks aimed at toppling the Assad regime, DEBKAfile’s military sources report. They may consist of imposing a no-fly zone and the sealing off of sectors in northern and southern Syria against government forces.

Russian forces also went on war alert

President Barack Obama and UK Prime Minister David Cameron spent 40 minutes on the phone Saturday night amid the strongest indications to date from Washington that direct military intervention by the West was approaching, following a change in the US president’s posture. He has become convinced that the strike would have to be conducted outside the United Nations.

Military commanders from Western and Muslim countries are meeting Sunday in the Jordanian capital of Amman to coordinate action in Syria, with the participation of the US, Britain, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, France, Italy and Canada. Gen. Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the US Chiefs of Staff chairs the meeting. Saturday night, four American destroyers were moving closer to Syria, armed with Tomahawk cruise missiles, which are capable of precision strikes.

While Western media are reporting at length on Western, Arab and Muslim military preparations, Israel’s armed forces are moving ahead in secrecy. Its officials spread soothing statements asserting Israel’s non-involvement in the Syrian turmoil, as Israel’s military and intelligence agencies get ready for Syria to counter an attack by loosing missiles against their country as well as Jordan and Turkey. All three also expect an explosion of terrorism.

Moscow has placed on war alert Russia’s Mediterranean and Black Sea fleets as well as rapid deployment forces in southern and central Russia.

Israel's "finger is on the pulse" following the situation in Syria, and – if needed – will also be on the trigger, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Sunday in his first public comments on reports that hundreds of Syrian were killed last week by chemical weapons.
What is happening in Syria is both a horrible tragedy and crime, he said at the opening of the weekly cabinet meeting.

Netanyahu said that Israel drew three conclusions from this episode.
"First, this situation cannot continue. Second, it is forbidden for the world's most dangerous regimes to have the most dangerous weapons in the world. And thirdly, we expect this to end, but we remember the ancient adage of our sages: 'If we are not for ourselves, who will be for us' – that is to say, our finger, our hand, will always be on the pulse. Our finger is responsible, and when needed it is also on the trigger."

Peres said that the "time has come for a joint effort to remove all the chemical weapons from Syria. They cannot remain there either in the hands of Assad or of others."
He said that while he could "understand the problems and doubts" about intervening in Syria, "the moral call is superior to any strategic considerations." He praised Fabius for speaking out on this issue, and said his voice "has been the clearest in recent days concerning the situation in Syria."
"In addition to everything else needed to stop this massacre there must be an international attempt to take out the weapons. It is very complicated and it is very expensive but it is more dangerous and more expensive to leave it there. It must be done," he said

Signals from the US suggesting a military response to thealleged chemical massacre in Syria are growing louder, and Israel, it is safe to assume, is quietly making preparations to ensure it is ready for potential retribution attacks.
If and when Washington, together with its allies, launches a military strike on Syria, the move will not only target the Assad regime.

A US military response will also challenge the belligerent axis that stands behind Syria, made up of Iran, which is sending weapons and military advisors to Syria, and Hezbollah, which sent thousands of highly trained, heavily armed fighters to Syria to help keep the Assad regime alive.

This axis, also known as the Shi'ite crescent, operates under Russian diplomatic cover, as well as military support from Moscow, in the form of extensive sales of sophisticated arms to Syria.
Iran, leader of the Shi'ite crescent, views Syria as its critical forward province. Now, the axis' members will be thinking about how they should respond to an imminent US military strike.

Attempts to lash out at Israel could include Syrian ballistic missile attacks, rocket attacks from Hezbollah in Lebanon or in Syria, or terrorist attacks on overseas Israeli targets by global Hezbollah or Iranian operatives.
Despite the threats, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran all know that any provocation against Israel could backfire badly against them.

The strength of Israel's deterrence, based on its military prowess, will help decide whether Israel becomes the target of a retribution attack.
The signals Israel has sent consistently in recent months and years suggest that it would be wrong to assume that Jerusalem will repeat its actions from the 1991 Gulf War, when Israel did not return fire at Iraq after coming under Scud missile fire.

The signals Israel has sent consistently in recent months and years suggest that it would be wrong to assume that Jerusalem will repeat its actions from the 1991 Gulf War, when Israel did not return fire at Iraq after coming under Scud missile fire.
Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon and IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz have already made it abundantly clear that Israel will respond to any attack on its civilians. The most recent demonstration of this resolve was on display last week, when the Israel Air Force bombed a terrorist site south of Beirut, in response to the firing of four rockets at northern Israeli cities.
The airstrike was the latest in a series of clear signals designed to exhibit Israel's determination to respond to all attacks on it. Before that, the IDF's Northern Command responded to gunfire and shelling attacks from Syrian army units by silencing the sources of fire with guided surface-to-surface Tamuz missile strikes.
Not only has Israel beefed up its deterrence with such responses, it has also – according to foreign media reports – demonstrated its preemptive capabilities, and resolve to use them.
According to reports, targets of past preemptive strikes range from caches of Iranian guided missiles in Damascus to a jihadi terrorist cell in the Sinai Peninsula preparing to fire rockets on Israel.
With the Israel Air Force able to strike more targets (near and far) than ever before, and IDF Military Intelligence keeping its many eyes on more enemy activity than ever before, those who consider striking at Israel will surely not proceed to do so lightly, if at all.
Any assessment of potential retribution should also factor in the possibility that Syria, Hezbollah and Iran might decide to take a calculated risk and launch a limited assault on Israel in response to a US strike, based on a prediction that Israel will refrain from responding with full force.

As the United States mulls response to the escalating situation in Syria, Syrian Information Minister Omran al-Zoubi warned Washington of launching military action against his country.
"The basic repercussion would be a ball of fire that would burn not only Syria but the whole Middle East," Zoubi told Lebanon-based Al-Mayadeen TV.

Similar warnings also came from Iran, one of President Bashar Assad's main allies.
Massoud Jazayeri, deputy chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, warned the United States on Sunday against crossing the "red line" on Syria, saying it would have "severe consequences", according to the Fars news agency.
"America knows the limitation of the red line of the Syrian front and any crossing of Syria's red line will have severe consequences for the White House," Jazayeri said, reacting to statements by Western officials regarding the possibility of military intervention in Syria, according to Fars.

U.S. naval forces are moving closer as the president emphasized that a quick intervention in the Syrian civil war was problematic, given the international considerations that should precede a military strike.

U.S. defense officials told The Associated Press that the Navy had sent a fourth warship armed with ballistic missiles into the eastern Mediterranean Sea but without immediate orders for any missile launch into Syria.
U.S. Navy ships are capable of a variety of military actions, including launching Tomahawk cruise missiles, as they did against Libya in 2011 as part of an international action that led to the overthrow of the Libyan government.
'The Defense Department has a responsibility to provide the president with options for contingencies, and that requires positioning our forces, positioning our assets, to be able to carry out different options - whatever options the president might choose,' Hagel told reporters traveling with him to Asia.
Hagel said the U.S. is coordinating with the international community to determine 'what exactly did happen' near Damascus earlier this week. 

 An Iranian commander is warning the United States over a possible military move against the Tehran-backed regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad.
The semi-official Fars news agency, which has close ties to Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard, quotes Gen. Masoud Jazayeri as warning that “trespassing over the red line in Syria will have severe consequences for the White House.”

Gen. Jazayeri did not provide details but said Washington is well aware of such red lines. He said the war in Syria is a product of a U.S. plot and “regional reactionary” countries, a common reference to Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
Earlier Saturday, Washington said U.S. naval forces are moving closer to Syria as President Barack Obama considers a military response to Assad’s alleged use of chemical weapons.

Newton's third law strikes again.
Yesterday, when describing the latest US developments in the Syrian "liberation" and "WMD elimination" we pointed out that the "use of war as a culmination point to end a depression is nothing new. Just look at the first Great Depression. And just like then, the only cost to perpetuate the myth of the Keynesian and monetarist religion and the pillaged wealth of the 0.01% status quo elite, will be a few hundred thousand innocent men, women and children. Or, as they are known in the Beltway, collateral damage. That is, unless, Putin decides to retaliate."
Moments ago Interfax reported that Russia is starting to pre-emptively, for now, retaliate.

Russia can increase its military presence in the Mediterranean in the case of the possible enlargement of the U.S. naval grouping in the region in the event of the aggravation of the situation in Syria, President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems Leonid Ivashov believes.

“Russia can increase its naval grouping in the Mediterranean as a reply measure. I think that nothing else remains to prevent the development of the factor of aggression,” he said to Interfax-AVN on Saturday commenting on media reports of the possible increase in U.S. naval presence in the Mediterranean.

In his opinion, Russia should point out to the world the most crying violations of the UN Charter concerning Egypt and especially Syria.

“We should be speaking more strongly of noninterference in the internal affairs of Syria,”Ivashov said.

He said that deliveries of Russian defense systems to the Syrian armed forces could become a lever of influencing the United Statesand of averting the threat of an attack on Syria.
Will Obama's misreading of the "New Normal" geopolitical balance of power, in which America is rapidly relegating itself from global superpower status and in which Putin most certainly does not see himself as inferior to the US, yet in which there is no actual game theoretical winner if everyone defects (but lots and lots of losers, except for the Fed) force America into a milltary confrontation from which there is no easy and simple way out?
We will find out over the next several days.

While the United States is repositioning its naval forces in the Mediterranean as it considers a possible military response to recent developments in Syria (as reported and shown yesterday), at least two other nations are joining in preparation for a naval offensive against the Middle Eastern nation.
Below, courtesy of Reuters and Stratfor, are details of U.S., French and British forces in the region that could be involved in any attack.
  • A U.S. military source said on Friday the U.S. Navy was increasing its number of cruise missile-carrying destroyers in the Mediterranean to four from three by delaying the return to the United States of the Arleigh Burke class destroyer USS Mahan.
  • The aircraft carrier USS Harry S Truman, by far the most powerful warship in the region, left the Mediterranean last weekend, passing through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea.
  • Defence experts say the carrier could still strike Syria from south of Suez. As well as the strike aircraft carried by the Truman, several of her escort ships are also capable of firing Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles.
  • Since earlier this year, the United States has also had F-16 jets in Jordan, where they remained after a major military exercise this year at the request of the Jordanian government. It also has a major air base at Incirlik in Turkey that could easily house multiple aircraft as part of a wider military campaign.

  • Having completed a major refit in the past few weeks, the French nuclear aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle is operational. Officials say she remains for now in the Mediterranean port of Toulon.
  • France also has Rafale and Mirage jets based in the United Arab Emirates that could potentially reach Syria.
  • Without any operational aircraft carriers, Britain would likely be dependent on its cruise missile-carrying Trafalgar and Astute class attack submarines if it wished to join in any U.S.-led campaign.
  • Defence sources say the Royal Navy has kept at least one of its submarines in the Mediterranean in recent months partly for that reason.
  • Britain does not currently have any combat aircraft in the region, although they could theoretically operate from UK sovereign bases in Cyprus providing the local government agreed.


Robin said...

The closer we get to the culmination of Isaiah 17, Isaiah 19, Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39, the more it appears these are all battles in one very big war.

Mrs.C said...

Sister Robin,
I have to respectfully disagree :)
Psalm 83 is not a war, it is a imprecatory Prayer. Isaiah 17 is the answer to that Prayer.
The Isaiah 17 war is completely different from the Ezekiel 38-39 war/invasion. They will occur back to back, leading with the Isaiah 17 war, quickly followed by the retaliatory Ezekiel 38-39 invasion/war. God has COMPLETELY different purposes for each of these wars. They are not one in the same...

Anonymous said...

Hi Mrs.C.
We are not here for either war
right? I cannot remember.

Mrs.C said...

Hi Sister Mary, :)
The Lord God Almighty begins to reveal Himself by the end of the Isaiah 17 war, when He Himself comes forward to save the Remnant of what is left of His People.
With this action by Him, He is beginning to turn His attention back to His People. By the end of the Ezekiel 38-39 war, Almighty God has fully revealed Himself to His People, and returned in FULL COVENANT to with them...we His Church is gone! THANK YOU FATHER! PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY FOREVER!

God Bless!

Scott said...

I think Robin makes a good point though - the Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39 will come in close enough proximity, that they could almost appear to be a continuous war - even though they are separate for separate purposes etc.

It is amazing to see both forming simultaneously. Both appear on the brink, and more than ever I see Isaiah 17 as proxy, involving Russia and Iran working behind the scenes.

Either way - its all coming together as we watch. And coming together rapidly.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a big earthquake in the coming 2-3 weeks.

Robin said...

Psalm 83 is still very much open to debate and both camps offering some good ponts. However, Jack Kelly, a scholar whose Biblical commentary I hold in high regard, stands on the side of Psalm 83 being not simply a prayer, but of prophecy, I tend to agree with him. At least read his commentary on the issue and kindly say where you believe his holes to be?

Mrs.C said...

Yes indeed Brother Scott, these wars could "appear" to be one continuous war, especially to non-Believers. But most important of all, is that Gods Word says that they are not all one war.

We are at the very edge of ALL time, and there are those folks out there that have been promoting these wars (in great error), as the Armageddon war, which they are not.
These false teachings are put forth at a time of the greatest Hope, our Blessed Hope, in order that the enemy use these teachings to diminish our Hope and Witness. As you know Brother, we are about to witness a horrific event, and at the same time, an awesome, I believe, final event for Witnessing to lead the lost to Him before our Groom comes for us. We had better get it right, as the lost folks Eternity is at stake 
There are many “Christians” out there that piggyback these teachings starting with these wars, telling everyone that we are in about to witness a Trib war which is not true.
Of course it continues, escalating to the point that they claim we are ALREADY in the Trib, which is also not true.

Again, at this very moment in all of time, it is so important that the Truth of His Word be said, rather than the misleading of false teachings. The enemy knows his time is very,very short, and likes nothing better than to promote false teachings, sew confusion, at this critical time...

Robin said...

As for whether or not God will fully reveale Himself following the Ezekiel 38-39 war is also open for discussion.

That war will bring Israel back into covenant . . .their need to return to animal sacrifices will be strong and cause the Abomination of Desolation to affect them greatly at the midway point as the Great Tribulation begins. But it's that need for animal sacrifices that indicates while they've fallen back into covenant, they're still in the dark. It's not until the end of the Great Tribulation that their eyes are fully open to the truth that Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb animal sacrifices had been preparing their hearts to receive. It's when they realize that truth call on His Holy Name, that ends the Tribulation period.

Robin said...

And Scott, I apologize if I've already shared this with you, but I don't recall.

While in Israel with Arnold Fruchtenbaum this summer, he gave us an interesting viewpoint on a Palestinian State that I'd never considered before.

Because Palestinians have been occupied for 60 years, without the ability to vote n free elections, there's only so much more time before rebellion completely breaks loose.

But giving Palestinians the right to vote, would vote Israel straight out of existence.

So Fruchtenbaum says the Palestinian State is inevitable. Israel's size has increased and contracted over the years since state hood and will continue to do so until Israel is back into covenant. God's will WILL be done regardless of any man made concessions from either side.

It's caused me to at least step back and try to take a more objective view of ME affairs. I certainly don't support a PA State but if it quells a powder keg for a short time, then surely this too must be God's will or it would not be allowed to happen. But then, I think we're much closer to our glorious Wedding Day than Arnold does.

Mrs.C said...

As said before Sister Robin, I have to respectfully disagree. In no way is Psalm 83 a war as some falsely claim, cherry picking Scripture to come up with a story to promote. Please forgive me, but I posted as such, that Psalm 83 is an imprecatory Prayer, and Isaiah 17 is Gods long awaited answer to that Prayer. As Isaiah 17 has yet to occur, that makes His Answer to that Prayer, an event yet to happen, ie, prophetic.

As for Brother Jack Kelly, I have known of him for many, many years, and have enjoyed his writings greatly.

I have to disagree with his synopsis. It is similar to another teaching that in error regarding Israel and the Isaiah 17 war and the results of that war. As said before, he too appears to take it another step further with the misunderstanding of the Ezekiel 38-39 war on certain points. Brother Hal Lindsey understands the Scripture differently as well, knowing that His Word CLEARLY says that Israel will experience “desolation”. Regardless of who says what, the MOST IMPORTANT is His Word, and the discernment that His Holy Spirit provides when we read His Word for ourselves. What has the Holy Spirit showed you when you read His Word regarding these wars?

Robin said...

Respectfully, sister . . .as I read Psalm 83, it deals with Saudi Arabia (Ishmaelites), Southern Jordan and Palestinians (tents of Edomite), Central part of Jordan and Palestinians (Moab) Hagarites (Egypt), Gebal (northern Lebanon) Ammon (Northern Jordan), Tyre (Southern Lebanon), Assyria (Syria and Northern Iraq). Isaiah 17 is about the complete destruction of Damascus and some very hard times for Israel.

No prophecy of scripture comes from any individual's interpretation according to 2Peter 1:20 and its very dangerous to assume one is right and discount learned scholars without careful consideration. There will likely be several minor points of misinterpretation when it all completely unfolds because it was written by prophets whom these things were revealed, who's vocabularies were limited by the times with which they lived. But the major points will be spot on and His Church will not see from this perch but one much Higher. Maranatha, Lord Jesus, Maranatha . . .

Mrs.C said...

Sister Robin,
God will indeed fully reveal Himself DURING, AND AT THE CONCLUSION of the Ezekiel 38-39 war/invasion, it is NOT “open for discussion” as you say. Don’t take my word for it, read what His Word says  He is pretty CLEAR on that. He tells His People, that He has “hid” His Face from them over thousands of years, (ie when they were taken into captivity etc) and now He will “hide His Face no more”. Not only that, but “many nations” He will reveal Himself too!

Ezekiel 38 :23
23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:23
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:28-29
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Yes, after witnessing the MIRACLE of God Himself save them from certain destruction with the Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38 wars, they will indeed rebuild the Temple and resume worship in the Temple. You are however, making an assumption that they are ALL still “in the dark” as you say.

First of all, if you read Ezekiel 39, you would see the most beautiful of conversations between God and His People. He gives them clean up instructions; so as to speak, and even creates a new celebratory festival! He tells His People He is back with them, forever. But through the Trib, what does God do? He provides His People with the way to Salvation. Some will become Jewish Believers, and some wont, continuing to ignore the Salvation God has provided to them. No different from those who witnessed Jesus’ Miracles, and yet they still would not Believe. It is also an assumption that the entire State of Israel is made up of nothing but Jewish People. That is not the case now, nor will it be in the future during the Trib.

Again, there will be many Jewish People that will come to accept Jesus as their Savior during the Trib, so many “eyes will be opened” way before the end of the Mid Trib, or the end of the Trib.

Robin said “It's when they realize that truth call on His Holy Name, that ends the Tribulation period”

Forgive me, perhaps I misunderstand what your saying here. No one has to “realize the truth of Jesus” etc, for the Trib to end. It is Jesus Himself, and only Jesus, that brings an end to the Trib…

Robin said...

I answer simply with this:

Luke 13:35
Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. ’”

Knowing and returning to God, places them back into covenant . . .as I said above . . .but the Bible clearly tells us they will return to animal sacrifices at such time . . ,which means they will NOT FULLY know Him because they will not know His Son. When the Abomination of Desolation occurs, they will flee to the mountains of Petra and Jesus will not come again until His elect cry out for Jesus.

Until Israel cries out for Jesus, the One they pierced 2000 years before, there will be much suffering. The purpose of the Tribulation isn't so much to unleash God's wrath, but to bring Israel back into covenant, complete Daniel's 70th Week and open His Elect's eyes to the truth of Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mrs.C(sister):)
I stand amazed at all the events that are taking place just as God said. I can't seem to wrap my mind around the fact that the rapture is very near.What a thrill to be living at this time in history.
Perhaps today! right WV?

Waterer said...

I speak here with a little fear and trepidation, but I have understood this last part as Robin has. I have believed it because of Jesus's words at the end of His last week,in leaving the Temple Mount,He says to the leaders, You will NOT see my face again until you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."
Part of His coming is that they call on Him to come by this blessing.
I appreciate this discussion and yet i do not see that grappling with the meaning of prophecy, in prayer means it is "open for discussion".I believe our pursuit to understand pleases Him.
IN every discussion we need each other. He doesn't give any one person the whole load of understanding. The beauty of the unity He prayed for to be paramount in our relationships with each other is the same unity that proves we are His disciples.

Robin said...

Matthew 23:37-38
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Robin said...

Sorry, silly App :)

Matthew 23:39
For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. ’”

Stephen said...

This may all prove pointless for the moment. If I know Obama he
will back OFF to benefit stock
bulls and NOTHING will happen.

we have all seen this before...
things come to THE BRINK and
then nothing happens.

THAT is what i am afraid will
happen again.

this will come to nothing.

Sadly enough, if stock bulls
are favored OVER continous
CW attacks, then Assad has learned
nothing and he will go on and
on with this until every LAST
REBEL is wiped off the map.

But greed is greed, and it may
very well be that NOTHING will
be done about Assad now.

If BULLS THINK they can get away
with this, they are wrong.

bulls no matter WHAT happens in
Syria. We have a number 2 UP in
progress, and it will end !!

then comes the three down.


the wave counts will be ADHERED to by this
market no matter what; it is
called social mood and is very
HARD to stop.

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>

Scott said...


I'm not entirely sure what your point is really, but the following truths may or may not be part of your point(s).

1. There are varying points of view on Psa 83, as there are many prophetic related scriptures. Most commentaries I read point to the fact that Psa 83 is a prayer or a 'prayer petition' for God to recognize ('make good" the promise of Genesis 12:3. Even the NIV study Bible explains Psa 83 as a prayer.

2. Isaiah 17 is the answer to this prayer, thus, we would see that the nations involved in the prayer (West Bank, central Jordan, S. Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Gaza etc., would presumably be involved, along with Syria at the time of ISaiah 17

3. God fully reveals Himself to the nation of Israel (specifically) and to the nations at the time of Ezekiel 38-39.

Ezekiel 39:21:

"I will display my glory among the nations and all the nations will see punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them. From this day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God."

"And So I will show my greatness and my holiness and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord."

Additionally, Jesus determines when the Tribulation ends. Don't forget the key point - ONLY Jesus can open the scroll (Revelation 5:9) and in turn, open the seals/trumpets/bowls for the 21 judgments to occur, the and it isn't until the 21st judgment ends that Jesus is destined to return to earth .

We can see the last of this when Jesus ('from the temple') says to the angels "Go pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth').

That seems completely dependent upon Jesus to me.


Mrs.C said...

Yes Sister Robin, Psalm 83 lists all those you mentioned, however what does His Word say that they are doing? Plotting, not warring, but plotting. That has gone on with the enemies of Israel plotting against her for centuries. There is no war mentioned, because they are not engaging in war, just plotting. Isaiah 17 is about more than you stated, please read the end of this Chapter. These evil nations surrounding Israel are “rebuked” by God Himself when they attempt to rush in and finish her off.

Isaiah 17:13
13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

There is no “discounting” of anyone going on here if that is what you are implying. Whos right? What? This isn’t about whos “right” or whos wrong, this is about what His Word says. It is discussions that have gone on for a long time, and there is ALWAYS disagreements, with the quip by some “oh, its not a Salvation issue”. This is fine amongst Believers, but its not ok for Witnessing to those who are on the fence with their Faith, or are lost. The Holy Spirit should let you know whether someone is speaking the Truth or not. Its just that simple. Forgive me, but you never answered my question as to what the Holy Spirit shows you when you yourself read His Word regarding these wars?

I agree, no one man, whether it be a “Scholar” or not, but clearly by the Prophets spoken to as your reference 2 Peter in context. Prophecy “never came from the will of man”, but from “holy men of God” that “spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit”.

2 Peter 1:-19-20
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,[b] 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

No one has an exclusive with the Holy Spirit, He is for ALL true Believers. Nor does anyone have an exclusive on Prophecy. If they say they do, RUN. Prophecy in His Word is for All to read, as is the Holy Spirit available to help us ALL just as Jesus said He would be. ..

Scott said...

Again, in Revelation 19, just before the second coming - we see what is happening. The saints are celebrating the imminent Second Coming - and the beginning of the celebration we see the connection to the ending of the 21 judgments "...Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.".

Again, I'm not even sure what the point is.

But honestly - is this nuance as important as the approaching wars screaming at us that Jesus is coming soon for His bride?

Scott said...

I was responding to Robin above, not mrs C - somehow Mrs C comments got interjected in between mine!

Stephen said...

YEP, sure enough, we can all
go back to sleep now.

DOW UP AGAIN tonite.

looks like a false alarm AGAIN
in the M E.......

EWI counts have ATLEAST 200
dow points of rally dead ahead.

it will take ANOTHER week for this
to seems....

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>

Waterer said...

Scott,Why can't Psalm 83 be both??? Psalm 22 is certainly both. UNtil it's fulfillment ,it looked just like a prayer. But at the Cross it came alive. It pointed to excatly what Jesus was feeling in the moment. It is both.

Robin said...

And that is simply my point, Mrs C . . .NO ONE does and anyone who professes to, should be silenced. And that is why I think we should be open minded enough to discuss particular points openly and respectfully rather than simply proclaim one is right and therefore Jack Kelley and Hal Lindsay (both very learned in The Word) are wrong. Nowhere do I proclaim this is the way it is . . .only that we accept the fact that their are other interpretations and that we respect those opinions. Again, they are minor points . . .its the major points that affect salvation. The rest is all just speculation, and that, too, is the beauty of His Holy Word.

Scott said...

Is it a prayer or a prophecy or both? (I think thats the question). I guess at this point it becomes semantics, and perhaps splitting hairs. I believe the listing of nations is prophetic in the sense that it gives us a clue as to who will subsequently be involved in Isaiah 17.

Is there a prophetic message contained within in the prayer? Maybe thats a better question. I guess I would say yes to that, based on the fact that the countries listed seemed to be listed for a reason. This is most definitely a prayer however.

This is splitting hairs to some degree.

To me, the nuances of prayer/prophecy/petition and those discussions obscure from the more important point of these coming wars and their significance.

Its kind of like arguing about the salt content of ocean water as a tsunami approaches. :)

Waterer said...

)Great Scott!What a good point!!:

Robin said...

That's a fascinating and apt point, Waterer. Just because Psalm 83 was overlooked for generations by Commentary writers as anything more than a prayerful plea, doesn't necessarily mean, in the last days, our eyes can't be opened to the possibility of a deeper meaning. Again, I'm not necessarily saying one idea is truth and therefore all other ideas can't possibly be.

Scott said...

at one time I had some really good commentaries on all of this, with regard to Isaiah 17, psa 83, etc, let me see if I can dig those up

Mrs.C said...

Sister Robin,
Forgive me Sister, but did you read my post? Please show me Scripture that says ALL Jewish People in Israel will be “blind” to Jesus as you suggest, during the Trib? How about the 144K JEWISH Believers that will be Witnessing Jesus to non Believing Jewish People in ISRAEL during the Trib. They aren’t part of the sacrifice worship at the Temple. They are Jewish Believers. Are you trying to suggest that NO ONE will be Saved in Israel during that time? God has always been clear, to the “Jew First”. You think that during the Trib, God has no plan of Salvation for His People to choose. Not true, that is why He has the 144K during the Trib. They are for His People First, then to the Gentile.

Forgive me, but when the Abomination of Desolation occurs mid-Trib, it is JEWISH BELIEVERS that “flee to the mountains”. In Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking to Jewish Believers. It is JEWISH BELIEVERS IN JESUS, they are SAVED, that escape to Petra, NOT Jewish non-Believers. This is the same as when Jesus walked the Earth. There were Jewish Believers, and Jewish non-Believers. God always provides a choice, and during the Trib, some will Believe in Jesus, and some wont. So there will be Jewish People that come to know Jesus DURING the whole time of the Trib, not just at the end of the Trib.

Robin said...

Firstly . . .i never said ALL Jewish people in Israel would be blind. I just returned there and attended some of the most beautiful services I've ever witnessed at Messianic Believers churches. And yes, of course the 144000 will come from Israel. I've never said otherwise. As for the Abomination of Desolation occurring mid Trib . . ,I said that as well as that's precisely what the Bible says. Surely you must have me mixed up with another poster perhaps? Because I've never made claims to the contrary of those facts.

If you would kindly scroll up, sister . . .these were my exact words, copied and pasted here since you perhaps missed it the first go around?

That war will bring Israel back into covenant . . .their need to return to animal sacrifices will be strong and cause the Abomination of Desolation to affect them greatly at the midway point as the Great Tribulation begins. But it's that need for animal sacrifices that indicates while they've fallen back into covenant, they're still in the dark. It's not until the end of the Great Tribulation that their eyes are fully open to the truth that Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb animal sacrifices had been preparing their hearts to receive. It's when they realize that truth call on His Holy Name, that ends the Tribulation period.

Sandra said...

Good evening Scott,

It is fascinating reading the continued bickering when shortly all things will be revealed. The point is we are nearing the end and must look up. There will be wars and rumors of wars...we are seeing the gathering of nations and sides being formed right before our eyes. It is almost like watching a movie put on fast forward.
Thank you again Scott for your hard work and Godly comments.

Sincerely in Christ,

Stephen said...

Scott, here is more info....

just came out....

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>>

notice the VERY LAST paragraph,
re the 400 tons ON THE WAY to
the rebels.

If the US does nothing, Assad will
have no CHOICE but to continue
CW attacks.....especially with
the NEW 400 tons against him.

Robin said...

And again . . .saying "they" is not an implication that I'm referring to ALL Jews . . .but any Jew believing that animal sacrifice will atone for their sins, has not yet had their eyes opened to the truth of what Christ did for us on the Cross . . .but they surely WILL.

Robin said...

Are you aware, in Petra, inside the many caves, people have slipped scripture between the rocks so that unbelievers in that day, might be awakened to the Truth? Why do you suppose they'd do such a thing is only believers are hiding?

Satan knows The Lord will return when the Jewish people call on Him. And that is why practicing Jews are commanded to flee when they see their Temple desecrated. Satan breaks the covenant he formed with them at the beginning of the Tribulation and will attempt to kill off the Jews to thwart the Prophecy . . .just as he did when he sent his band of angels to make babies with human women to destroy the bloodline that would bear Jesus . . .or had all the babies under two killed when Herod learned Christ had been born. Satan has plotted since the beginning of creation to block our Holy Father and Christ Jesus and has to know he'll utterly fail. But it's all predestined and foretold and nothing can stop the Living Word of Truth.

Mrs.C said...

Sister Robin said “rather than simply proclaim one is right and therefore Jack Kelley and Hal Lindsay (both very learned in The Word) are wrong”

Forgive me Sister, but who is proclaiming Brother Jack and Brother Hal are wrong? And about what? That was not said at all, nor was there any “proclaiming” as you state. Brother Jack and Brother Hal are both excellent teachers of the His Word. Brother Hal has interpretations differently, than Brother Jack, its that simple. Man if fallible, as the Scriptures states, and there have been plenty of “learned Scholars” that fall WAY off track from His Word in there teachings. Who shows ALL of us this? The Holy Spirit.
We are living in the Last Days, and as we were warned, False Prophets abound…

Scott said...

Sandra - Thanks for the kind words :)

Stephen - thats the narrative. My wife and I were discussing this today and my conclusion is "It doesn't really matter at this point - who did what - what matters is the outcome. The narrative will be twisted regardless of what really happened.

Either way, it looks like US is getting involved. Russia and Iran aren't going to like it one bit - and that is when things are going to get really really interesting

Mrs.C said...

Sister Robin said “rather than simply proclaim one is right and therefore Jack Kelley and Hal Lindsay (both very learned in The Word) are wrong”

Forgive me Sister, but who is proclaiming Brother Jack and Brother Hal are wrong? And about what? That was not said at all, nor was there any “proclaiming” as you state. Brother Jack and Brother Hal are both excellent teachers of the His Word. Brother Hal has interpretations differently, than Brother Jack, its that simple. Man if fallible, as the Scriptures states, and there have been plenty of “learned Scholars” that fall WAY off track from His Word in there teachings. Who shows ALL of us this? The Holy Spirit.
We are living in the Last Days, and as we were by Jesus warned, False Prophets abound..having an “open mind” to all that is out there in these critical Last Days… “very dangerous”…

2 Timothy 4:3
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Mrs.C said...

Forgive me again Sister Robin,
But you made no differential between Saved or Un Saved Jewish People during the Trib, in your posts…in fact you emphasized that “they” would not know Jesus, not deciphering the difference between Believers and Non Believers.

Sister Robin said…

“Knowing and returning to God, places them back into covenant . . .as I said above . . .but the Bible clearly tells us they will return to animal sacrifices at such time . . ,which means they will NOT FULLY know Him because they will not know His Son. When the Abomination of Desolation occurs, they will flee to the mountains of Petra and Jesus will not come again until His elect cry out for Jesus.”

“But it's that need for animal sacrifices that indicates while they've fallen back into covenant, they're still in the dark.”

Mrs.C said...

Yes Sister Robin, I have heard of the placing of these notes in Petra. Forgive me, but just because people leave notes, has no basis in Scripture as to whom will occupy Petra.
Kinda like just because you stand in a garage, doesn’t make you a car :)

Rather than “notes” left by Heaven knows who, at Petra, Gods Word tells us VERY clearly that those that flee during the Mid Trib to Petra are Born Again, Fully Saved Jewish People. The Remnant of His People…they “keep the Commandments of God” AND “HAVE THE TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ”…

Revelation 12 :17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Robin said...

I interpret scripture to mean its not enough for the remnant to call on Him, but rather Israel as a nation as well as its leaders. That day will not come midway In The Tribulation but rather at the end of the Great Tribulation.

I am not a student of Seminary, nor can I read Hebrew or Greek. Far more is revealed to learned scholars who study the Bible than a casual reader can glean. We are encouraged to study for that very reason. Studying the Bible also includes reading commentaries, writings and other resources. I've read much of Jack Kelleys writings for years and trust his interpretation just as I trust Scott's. their doctrine is sound. If you could please post a link to your writings or perhaps point me in the direction of your books, or at least share why Jack Kelley and Hal Lindsay are wrong about Psalm 83 being an actual war and why you are correct so that we can make up our own minds, I'd welcome it. But as a student of His Word, I'm still in the learning stages and therefore, come here and elsewhere to develop a greater understanding of the Bible. You are a good woman, to be sure . . .and I've learned much from you. But at the end of the day, you're still just Mrs C and could be virtually anyone and I simply have not been given a good reason for why I should trust only your interpretation of the Bible and no one else's.

Mike said...

I haven’t posted here in a very long time, since the switch to the new posting system, but I just felt the need to comment. I have been a steady regular here for years, and have had some very good conversations with the old regulars. I remember the period where the trolls were causing so many problems, hence the change in how to post here.

I am reading the debate about Ezekiel, Isaiah, Psalms, and the tone of the debate. I really never want to stir the pot, but it just seems to me the tone from Robin has been that of a Christian dedicated to learning the Word, and knowing for a fact that NO ONE knows exactly how prophesies will be fulfilled until they are, and that as watchers, and true Christians, all who are here discuss with respect for others views, and learn as we go. Yes, the Bible means one thing, and all we can do is read more and try to interpret what God is telling us, and the area of prophecy is one where no one knows exactly until it is fulfilled.

Mrs. C, with all due respect, and I mean that, but it has seemed, over the past few years, your tone is condescending, and that of someone who believe they know absolutely their point is correct. I can tell you are a very sincere, Bible believing Christian, and very knowledgeable, and I respect that. But from sitting on the sidelines, and when your comments come in on some subjects, it seems as though you reprimand anyone with a different take on a prophecy. I believe that is not an encouraging way to edify fellow Christians, who have a sincere view themselves, and study intensely also, nor is it inviting to someone reading who may not have made the decision to follow Christ as of yet.

The outcome and order of the prophecies being discussed here can, without twisting scripture, have more than one possibility than that of any one knowledgeable, respected Christian. I believe it very divisive to talk down or condescend to someone who obviously has invested many hours or years in reading scripture themselves, and to come across as reprimanding. I have seen it constantly in the past few years, and just want to bring it to your attention, in case that is not your intention.

Again, I mean no disrespect, but with the obvious knowledge of God’s Word that you have, it sure could be much more encouraging, in a discussion forum, to respect others right to try to interpret the truth from prophecies given to us. I have slightly different views of some things you have given your view of in the past, and even from some of Scott’s replies, I know he has left open the possibility of how certain things may turn out differently than what our mortal minds come up with prior to actual fulfillment.
Again, this is said with all due respect and love from a brother in Christ. On this subject, I see things you have said I agree with, and that I disagree with, and the same goes for Robin. I agree with Robin in not ‘taking your word’, as you are not the authority, but are human as we are. But I believe as we all have the same goal, to know God more each day, and as Christians to learn as we go until He comes for us….which I happen to agree with Scott about that earthquake in the next couple weeks…;)

Mike said...

ooopss.... Thought it would sign my name...


Stephen said...


we all have to wait for the

stocks are going no where tonite.
up a little down a little.

it is NOT a shoe in that Obama
will start launching the Tomahawks.

IF HE DOES, and I mean IF he does,
then there will be something to
talk about, until then debating
back and forth accomplishes VERY


we all just have to wait,
and wait....

to see what happens.

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>

David said...

What would cause an entire city to be leveled? Not only leveled, but uninhabitable? A nuclear warhead which is ground detonated.

The atomic bomb used on Hiroshima was detonated above ground which greatly reduces the amount of nuclear fallout, allowing for eventual habitation.

A megaton ground blast would eliminate everything and render it uninhabitable for ever.

Who is most likely to use a nuclear weapon against Syria? The U.S. or Israel? ....Israel by far....I could see Israel going in with the U.S. to hit Syria's military targets in response to the use of chemical weapons. I could also see Syria firing back on Israel and then Iran and Russia joining in....ahhh the possibilities are endless.

David P.

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stephen said...

Scott, this just came out on Debka >>>>>>

this is NOT GOOD.

It would appear that Obama has already made a CHOICE with the

if so, I think at any time Jesus
will appear in the sky for his

things are rapidly accelerating...

and very disturbing at that.

Its sad that those people at REAL
JOCK shut me down, never wanted
me around, when I tried to tell
them about it may be too late....why do people choose
to be decieved at THE WORST possible moment ??? why ??


Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>

Gary said...

Wow...48 comments! Must be a record? I hope this is it. I really thought that we would be gone months ago. I hope that what's occurring now will develop in the rapture of The Church.

Mrs.C said...

Yes Robin, in the very end Israel will call on their Savior. Zechariah tells us that only one third of the Jewish People will survive through the Trib. However, your statement was suggesting that those in Petra were not Saved, when His Word, which is the only important thing here, says they will indeed be Saved.

Forgive me Robin, but “learned Scholars” are susceptible to error, they are human also. They too, just like any of us, can be lead in the wrong direction. Yes, we are encouraged to study His Word, sometimes alone, and sometimes together. I too have read much of Brother Jack, for decades, and I have said many times now, that I believe he is an excellent teacher. As for Brother Hal, well I consider him family  He led me to Jesus, face to face, over twenty five years ago, and I attended his church. I love him dearly. He is an awesome teacher of the Word, but that doesn’t mean that you have to agree with everything he teaches, and he would be the first to agree to disagree. Please Sister, you have been posting here for quite a while now, and the discussion of Psalm 83 has been discussed many times. There is no action of war by Israel’s enemies in that Psalm. If God doesn’t say it, its not there. Its very simple. There is a conspiracy against Israel by her enemies, and a Prayer to God that has yet to be fulfilled. I have never suggested you “trust” only my “interpretation”. We are to test against Scripture, and if what is said it isn’t what His Word says, then reject it. If you want to discuss Scripture, then as Brother Scott says, provide the Scripture to back up your view. That is how discussions become rich with fascinating studies.

Sister Robin, this is not about me, you, or any other Brothers and Sisters, “scholar” or not. This is about His Word, with the discernment of His Holy Spirit. Time is very short, as agreed by many, not just me. It is so important to lead the lost to Jesus while there is still time, we have to get it right as much as possible. Jesus warned us of an abundance of false teachings that would be around in these Last Days, and there is no shortage of them. Know His Word for yourself; the Holy Spirit is always willing to help. Jesus assured us He would be our Helper, and He is, especially in these days. As for who I am, Brother Scott knows me, as Im sure you know that having been around here for a while now , don’t know if that comforts you or not. :)

Scott said...

No, 48 is actually relatively low. We've hit ~ 100 before - and many in the 60-80 range...usually its not a good sign unfortunately

Mike said...