Sunday, May 11, 2014

In The News

As usual, Sunday is a good day for reflection and commentary on the week's events. 

The IMF has approved a $17 billion loan to Ukraine. The first $3.2 billion tranche has arrived on Wednesday.
It’s essential to identify the conditions attached to this Mafia-style“loan.” Nothing remotely similar to reviving the Ukrainian economy is in play. The scheme is inextricably linked to the IMF’s notorious, one-size-fits-all “structural adjustment” policy, known to hundreds of millions from Latin America and Southeast Asia to Southern Europe.
The regime changers in Kiev have duly complied, launching the inevitable austerity package – from tax hikes and frozen pensions to a stiff, over 50 percent rise on the price of natural gas heating Ukrainian homes. The “Ukrainian people” won’t be able to pay their utility bills this coming winter.

Predictably, the massive loan is not for the benefit of “the Ukrainian people.” Kiev is essentially bankrupt. Creditors range from Western banks to Gazprom – which is owed no less than $2.7 billion. The “loan” will pay back these creditors; not to mention that $5 billion of the total is earmarked for payments of – what else – previous IMF loans. It goes without saying that a lot of the funds will be duly pocketed – Afghanistan-style – by the current bunch of oligarchs aligned with the “Yats” government in Kiev.
The IMF has already warned that Ukraine is in recession and may need an extension of the $17 billion loan. IMF newspeak qualifies it as “a significant recalibration of the program.” This will happen, according to the IMF, if Kiev loses control of Eastern and Southern Ukraine – something already in progress.

So here’s the IMF prescription for the oligarch bunch – some of them actively financing Right Sector militias: As long as you’re facing a popular rebellion in Eastern and Southern Ukraine, relax; you will get additional IMF cash further on down the road. Talk about a crash course in disaster capitalism.

Meanwhile, the Obama administration’s juvenile delinquent school of diplomacy remains on track: the plan is to entice Moscow to “invade.” Benefits would be immense. Washington would destroy once and for all the emerging strategic partnership between the EU, especially Germany, and Russia, part of a more organic interaction between Europe and Asia; keep Europe perennially under America’s thumb; and boost Robocop NATO after its Afghan humiliation.

What the Ministry of Truth script imposed on all Western corporate media insists on labeling “pro-Russian separatists” are in fact Ukrainian federalists. They don’t want to split. They don’t want to join the Russian Federation. What they want is a federalized Ukraine with strong, autonomous provinces.

Washington is actively praying that the confrontation between the EU and Russia on the gas front spirals out of control.

Moreover Gazprom, in 2014 alone, has already signed extra deals with German, Italian, Austrian and Swiss partners. Italy’s ENI and France’s EDF are partners from the start. Germany, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary and Austria are deeply involved in South Stream. No wonder none of them are in favor of more sanctions on Russia.
As for any substantial move by the EU to find new supply sources, that’s a process that should take years – and should involve the best possible alternative source, Iran, assuming a nuclear deal with the P5+1 is struck this year. Another possible source, Kazakhstan, exports less than it could, and that will remain the case because of infrastructure problems.
So we’re back to the Ukrainian tragedy. Moscow won’t “invade.” What for? The IMF’s structural adjustment will devastate Ukraine more than a war; most Ukrainians may even end up begging Russia for help. Berlin won’t antagonize Moscow. So Washington’s rhetoric of “isolating” Russia is just revealed for what it is: juvenile delinquency.
What’s left for the Empire of Chaos is to pray for chaos to keep spreading across Ukraine, thus sapping Moscow’s energy. And all this because the Washington establishment is absolutely terrified of an emerging power in Eurasia. Not one, but two – Russia and China. Worse: strategically aligned. Worse still: bent on integrating Asia and Europe. So feel free to picture a bunch of Washington angry old men hissing like juvenile delinquents: “I don’t like you. I don’t want to talk to you. I want you to die.”

Today I would like to return to your awareness an aspect of the Human condition that condones violence under certain circumstances. To this end, we find ourselves going along with the most egregious of things, not least of which is war. Here we find not only a consensus of opinion— but an accepted truth. People kill people. That’s what we do. People have been killing each other over borders, religion, ideology, politics and resources as far back as history will take us. It’s a given that we will continue in this maniacal cycle of war, truce and temporary peace until our time on this planet is through. It’s our nature and so it is our course and therefore our destiny! —Or is it?

We sit around the proverbial card table and we’re handed the rules. We don’t really question them. The rules are the rules and that’s that! And at the end of the night, should one run out of money because the others understood the rules better, then maybe a moment of truth will beckon. Perhaps one will decide it is best not to bother with the rules at all— and instead seek to unmask the rule maker.

Like with most templates of social order, political correctness is just another illusion, a construct we’ve bought into. It’s there to give the impression that society cares. Society does not care. We are told warm and fuzzy things to make us believe we live in a benevolent culture. We do not! We live in a war culture- we live in a prison culture and we live in a culture of denial. Don’t believe it? Like I said— denial!

An online dictionary source defines psychopath as: “a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc. Also called sociopath, a person afflicted with a personality disorder characterized by a tendency to commit antisocial and sometimes violent acts and a failure to feel guilt for such acts.”

That pretty much sums up who’s running our world. Are they entirely Human? To be honest, I’m not so certain.

I have difficulty defining the Human species without considering our remarkable propensity to love and be loved. But there are those that do not love or care for others and one must wonder just what planet they’re from. Perhaps we can generalize and simply call some people psychopathic. They might as well be lizards in skin suits so far as I’m concerned. To call them Human seems a stretch indeed. But they walk the walk and talk the talk. We get tricked by these tricksters—they’re good at their game and they know it. They’ve had plenty of time to really get it all honed down good and tight.

Tag onto this that other land mass with far more people to cast political upheaval than Putin has to contend with: China.
Suddenly the economy touted as “the” economy that will save us all is not only slowing, it’s contracting at a pace far more quickened as a direct result of QE being pulled.
One has to search far and deep to find just how bad and the frightening instability within their financial system that could take down world markets in a free fall under the right circumstances.
The issue here is these circumstances are not a million to one, they could be as high as 1 in 10. The U.S. “intelligentsia” seems absolutely oblivious to these facts or even the notion that such could transpire. Yet, suddenly that trading partner that every one of our so-called “smart crowd” regurgitates “they need us as more than we need them” is publicly taking the side, drawing up trade deals, and standing for photo ops with: Russia. Seems they have something in common suddenly don’t you think?

I marveled the other day when I found myself in a heated argument with others in respects to the events of today and how they’re playing out. Every time a point was brought about on how or why the circumstances along with the possibility for WWIII breaking out in earnest was met with sheer contempt, as if such things were ancient history.

Even when it was pointed out the display this past week by Soviet forces in assorted missile launches coupled with the now seemingly joined at the hip China sending in armed protection provoking retaliation or provocation in both U.S. friendly Japan and Vietnam territories: it was brushed aside.

Used as defense was the ludicrous notion that things like this aren’t as probable any more since economically we’re all dependent on each other as never before. That’s why the monetary policies since WWII has kept that type of balance in check. Personally I was left once again – mouth agape.
Even when the notion was interjected we could see a Bay Of Pigs styled replay at any given time, and that alone could bring on consequences no one has a clue about. Once again it was met as if all the powers that be are in fact “all-powerful” and can handle things with little to no disruption of any significance using , Greece, Spain, and even our own conflicts such as Iraq and more as validation.

WWI began in earnest just about a month following the Archduke’s demise. Russia invaded Crimea in about the same time-frame. Couple with that the quickness of communist leaders publicly displaying solidarity reminiscent of events that transpired at the beginning of WWII. And the outright visible show of armament and the willingness to display it prominently under the noses of Western alliances suggestive of The Bay Of Pigs, and I guess there’s really no need for concern. After all we’ve got the latest and greatest deterrent the world has ever seen: #hashtags.

Have you noticed that the cries of the cultural and political “left” in the U.S. are becoming more venomous and shrill?  As President Barack Obama flails on the international stage and approval for his domestic agenda and his party in Congress slips away, so-called “progressive” Americans are also watching something else slip away:  the chances of politicians and government bureaucrats getting a strangle-hold on the petroleum energy industry.

The stated goal of progressive energy policy is to stave-off “global warming” (or “climate change” or “climate disruption” or whichever term progressives choose at any given moment), and the means to that end is curtailing oil production and consumption.  But expanding government power to force a reduction in oil production and consumption and in turn to mandate “green energy projects” is the only way to make it all happen, so progressives say, and anybody who dares to doubt the agenda is a “climate denier” and to be despised.

Legitimate questions that thoughtful people might otherwise have about “climate science” or the economic viability of alternative energy projects shall not be expressed, and concerns about conflicts of interest or corruption with “climate activists” are to be ignored. 

The “science” that animates global warming policies is “indisputable” regardless of how many scientists dispute it

Did you get that?  The “science” that animates global warming policies is “indisputable” regardless of how many scientists dispute it.  “Clean, renewable energy” is to be praised- always – no matter how much American taxpayer money gets handed-over to green energy companies that end up going bankrupt and never producing any energy at all.

And here’s something else about which American progressives seem completely unaware:  free people on at least three different continents have elected governments that are abandoning the progressive goal of destroying the petroleum energy industry and moving in the exact opposite direction of the Obama Administration.  One of the most obvious examples of this is just a bit further northward, but right here in North America.

Consider Stephen Harper, the Prime Minster of Canada. First elected in 2006 on a campaign pledge to, among other things, foster close ties to President George W Bush and America’s efforts to fight terrorism, Harper has over the past eight years championed free trade, federal government spending reductions, and a significant boost in oil production. Today the Canadian government is on track to be debt-free in 2015, as Harper tirelessly lobbies the U.S. to become more cooperative with oil pipeline projects and energy exploration.

Then consider the country of Australia and it’s new Prime Minister Tony Abbott. It wasn’t sufficient that in 2013 Australia was already a global leader in iron ore and timber production and that’s its’ government was set to close out the calendar year debt-free – no, the citizenry of the land “down under” wanted an even more business-friendly and fiscally sound government for themselves, so they elected a candidate for Prime Mister who repeated from the campaign trail that the global climate change agenda is “absolute crap.”

European nations are abandoning their “green” status

And – gasp! – could it be that the European nations are abandoning their “green” status? It would appear that way. Two months ago the European commission, the legislative body that sets policies shared among the member nations, voted to officially abandon specific sets of “climate change protocols.” Even more stunning, the commission appears to be preparing to allow fracking among the member nations, with the hope of making Europe a leader in the global natural gas and oil shale markets.
True believers in President Obama’s agenda probably won’t allow themselves to ask difficult questions or to consider how the world is changing, at least that probably won’t happen anytime soon.  The rest of us, however, need to speak up, face the facts, and stop ignoring harsh realities on the economy and energy policy.

The Praise Of Folly

“The Peace Process” fell back into a coma before coming out of it. No one, except, of course, Obama and Kerry, has expected a different outcome.
A miracle didn’t happen. The talks ended the way they were doomed to end—in a complete fiasco. It was an obvious outcome to anyone who was even slightly familiar with Middle East realities. None of the sides was interested in the negotiations in the first place; everyone was waiting for the “partner” to slip up and destroy the negotiations.
There are several reasons 

  • Abbas can’t recognize Israel as a Jewish state because it contradicts the basic doctrine of Islam that there shouldn’t be any alien state on the Muslim land. Previously conquered territory by Islam (not only Palestine, but also Andalusia, Sicily and Malta) which was once included in “Dar al-Islam” (“Land of Islam”) must be returned to the eternal possession of Arabs;
  • Modern Islamic theology claims that Jews do not exist as a nation. Muslim theologians refuse to recognize the existence of Jewish Kingdoms on Land of Israel; according to them the First and Second Temple and all Jewish history are fiction and myth. Furthermore, Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), David (Daud) and Solomon (Suleiman) are actually the forefathers of Islam, “stolen” by Judaism. Jews do not constitute a nation, they are disparate groups of tribes and ethnos (from the Khazars to the Berbers) practicing Judaism. And as such, Jews don’t have a right to own land and statehood.
  • Honor” and “Land” are sacral principles of Arab culture. “Honor” does not allow “dhimmi people” to dictate their wish to the “People of Allah”. It’s forbidden to give away Land to a stranger. Israel, according to this logic, even in the borders of 1967, from Ashkelon (Askelon) to Akre, is an Arabic land. Jordanian king Abdullah I and Anwar Sadat were murdered by Islamic zealots, because they dared to challenge these principles. Let me remind: Abdullah I was assassinated by a zealot because of his desire to make peace with Israel in 1951 when there were neither “occupied territories”, nor settlements or even “Palestinian people” as a nation.

    There were neither “occupied territories”, nor settlements when five Arab states invaded on territory of Israel in in May 1948;
  • From a Palestinian perspective, Israel is a colonial, alien entity, a tumor on the body of the Arab world. Generations of Palestinians were brought up on such views. This ideology was actively promoted by Abbas in schools, in mosques and in the media. PLO’s Charter with its initial goal to destroy “the Zionist entity” has not been canceled yet. An instructional book called the Palestinian Terminology Guide, released by the PA Ministry of Information, suggests alternative meanings to the following terms: “Israel” is replaced by “The Israeli Colonialist Occupation”, “Israel’s Defense Minister” by “Israeli Minister of War”, “Martyrdom-Seeking Operation” replaces “Suicide Bombing”, “Temple Mount” by “Hiram al-Sharif”, “Wailing Wall” by “Al-Buraq Wall” and, finally, “Star of David” is replaced by “Six-pointed Star”.
  • Abbas, like his predecessor Arafat, has never been a statesman. He represents a generation of revolutionary “national liberation movement”, nurtured in The Peoples’ Friendship University in USSR. Their task was not to create, it was to destroy. Abundance of “useful idiots” in the West allows Palestinians to realize their tasks gradually, through unilateral actions, without any agreements with Israel. Their position is ideal: doing absolutely nothing (except constantly complaining about the occupation), they receive, practically, everything, without jeopardizing themselves. The subsidies that PA has received since 1993 could’ve turned the West Bank and Gaza into second Singapore; however, all the amounts have mysteriously vanished in Ramallah. (A total of 2.5 billion EUR in aid, that according to a draft report from the European Court, the EU has transferred to Gaza and PA, have disappeared without a trace). In an interview то The New York Times former Prime Minister PA Salam Fayyad said bitterly: “Our story is a story of failed leadership, from early on… It is incredible that the fate of the Palestinian people has been in the hands of leaders so entirely casual, so guided by spur-of-the-moment decisions… we hold ourselves hostage to our own rhetoric.”
  • Abbas is a mere party functionary, an apparatchik, and a conformist. He is lacking the vision of Anwar Sadat, and the dignity of King Hussein. His main aim is to preserve his own wealth, which is estimated at $100 million, and prosperity of his sons, who own the largest businesses in PA; he is not interested in playing the “Russian roulette”. He knows that he is not legitimate anymore (recent elections in PA that were supposed to be held back in 2010, were postponed under different pretexts). Any careless step would mean death sentence to him – he has no deficit of enemies in PA: from “young wolfs” in FATH to HAMAS.

Resentment of Israelis is a result of sad empirical experience. In the early 90’s most of the Israeli public supported the peace agreements and concessions, but their optimism has soon faded away. Twice (Ehud Barak at Camp David in 2000 and Ehud Olmert in Annapolis in 2008) Israel has offered the Palestinians (Arafat and Abu Mazen respectively) maximum concessions: 95-98% of the West Bank (with the option of exchange for other territories) and East Jerusalem (within frame works of Clinton’s plan). Olmert was ready to consider returning approximately 100,000 Palestinian refugees to Israel and allowing “safe passage” between Gaza and the Judea. He even offered to transfer the control over Temple Mount to the consortium: Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the U.S., Israel and the PLO. Abbas has refused.

Waves of deadly terror in the mid 90s and especially at the beginning of the last decade (“second intifada”) took life of thousands of Israelis and had become the toughest collective trauma. In addition, because of the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza people of southern Israel for the last 10 years had been living in a state of constant fear from rocket attacks.

In a situation where every attempt to achieve peace turned into another bloody experiment, the majority of Israelis came to the conclusion that it would be better off without “peace”. The attention of the society has shifted to domestic issues: economy and social inequality.

Had Kerry bothered to learn even a little about the situation with Israel and the Palestinians, he wouldn’t have had to bang his head against the wall. A prospect of a Nobel Peace Prize could have been much more realistic for him had he dealt with problems of hunger and diseases in Africa, the fight against drug cartels, or the achievement of peace in Colombia - America’s backyard. He should bear in mind Albert Einstein’s words: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.
Alas, human folly is boundless.

Also see:

Foreign Policy Coverups

Israeli Lawyer Plants Legal Trap For PA Leader


hartdawg said...

Forgive my impatience....I'm sure a lot of you feel the same way, but how much "road paving" and "stage setting" is there? How many "tipping point" can there be? I KNOW that I'm not the only one who feels this way. If I was then I'd really be concerned......but still.....

Scott said...

It's all according to God's timing. Noah preached for around 100 years before the flood. We know that a generation is ~ 120 years and it (IMO) started in the WWI era when the first birth pains appeared.

We know that the signs would be cycling like birth pains throughout the generation and we aren't at the end of that generation yet. Of course the gathering up will occur 7+ years prior to the end of the generation so there is still some room within that time frame (but not much).

Having said all of that - I have been waiting for > 30 years (which, btw, is miniscule in God's eyes). It is frustrating - to feel so so close to Heaven and the presence of Jesus, but having to wait day after day...I share that frustration very much, but I have to maximize that time while we are here.

As said before - this is one of the many things that makes it difficult being a prophecy watcher - and I believe one of the reasons we are rewarded with a special crown for awaiting the Lord's return.

hartdawg said...

I personally think we have a few years left. Probably around 3 years but not much longer than that. Since Gog and Magog occurs prior to the tribulation and Israel has to be living securely without walls before Gog and Magog this tells me that it's probably still a few years out but not many. That's just my thinking anyway

Scott said...

Yea - I assume you are referring to the Tribulation beginning - and I can see it like that....But - don't forget, the Rapture can occur at any time - and, for instance, if the Rapture were to occur tomorrow - the entire 'landscape' would change in an instant...Everything would be different. We'd have immediate economic collapse and calamity at unheard of proportions - that alone, IMO, would set the stage for the AC's arrival...Its always easy to forget that when we're looking ahead

hartdawg said...

I personally place the rapture, Gog and Magog and the start of the 70th week within weeks, or a few months at most within each other, and in that order. I don't think there'll be a significant gap between the rapture and the start of the 70th week because not only would a significant gap contradict the pattern of the ancient Jewish wedding, the bride was gone for exactly 7 days, not 8 or 9....but it would also contradict the pattern with lot. It rained fire down the very day lot fled. So based on my (human) reasoning the 70th week can't begin till Gog and Magog, Gog and Magog can't begin till Israel is dwelling safely and securely without walls and short of a direct intervention from God (which very well may occur) it'll take a few years for that to come about and I don't see a significant gap between the rapture and the start of the 70th week. In the meantime, we are to continue to watch the signs and get the gospel out. One more thing, I'm in no way dogmatic about my position

Scott said...

I believe Gog-Magog occurs before the Trib and that is what sets up he confirmation of Dan 9:27 (iow, in the aftermath of Gog-Magog)...I also believe the Rapture occurs before Gog-MaGog - so that may leave a little more time between the gathering up and the rapture (months? weeks?)....Gog-Magog will go down very quickly.

As far as Israel dwelling in safety (security) - w/o walls - I believe thats the case now. The cities are not walled as they were at the time of the writing of those scriptures - when all cities were "walled" like jerusalem....Now no cities are walled - so I believe that fits the description and realy, Israel, because of their military and proven in '67 and subsequent skirmishes - I believe they are now dwelling in safety. I believe those criteria are met today

Scott said...

I believe Gog-Magog occurs before the Trib and that is what sets up he confirmation of Dan 9:27 (iow, in the aftermath of Gog-Magog)...I also believe the Rapture occurs before Gog-MaGog - so that may leave a little more time between the gathering up and the rapture (months? weeks?)....Gog-Magog will go down very quickly.

As far as Israel dwelling in safety (security) - w/o walls - I believe thats the case now. The cities are not walled as they were at the time of the writing of those scriptures - when all cities were "walled" like jerusalem....Now no cities are walled - so I believe that fits the description and realy, Israel, because of their military and proven in '67 and subsequent skirmishes - I believe they are now dwelling in safety. I believe those criteria are met today

watcher said...

just an analysis on your comment about Noah preached for 100 years;

If Noah did preached for 100 years, t'was FUTILE.

When God commanded Noah to build the Ark, He also did mentioned Who will be saved.

Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

So even before Noah began building the ARK, he already knew that everyone shall perish except his family. So preaching would be FUTILE.



When Lot's family was safely out of the city...
God punished those that Remains in the city

When the Rapture occur, Who will be saved?

The Righteous.

What shall remain are the wicked...Destined to Perish.

There will be no preaching after the righteous were caught up...

Will the wicked preached to the wicked?
Just a thought.

Scott said...

There will be a LOT of preaching after the Rapture. The Two witnesses who preach for 3.5 years...The 144,000 who are sealed. And Angels proclaim the gospel to the entire world during the Tribulation.

The point about Noah was more about his "waiting" for that duration than it was about the fate of those who remained unsaved. The point I was making - was that the saints (whether OT or NT) have had a history of "waiting" for God's word to be fulfilled, so we shouldn't expect otherwise.

Scott said...

And to add - John saw the souls of those who were saved during the Tribulation - now in Heaven - asking God 'how much longer' for those saved during the Tribulation and who still find themselves enduring the Tribulation

watcher said...

Regarding Noah again, God was the one waiting for Noah to complete the Ark.
God word shall be fulfilled, we prepare.

And regarding the "souls" of those who asked how long.

*[[Rev 6:9]] KJV* And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
1. They were slain: Dead. (At Rest)

*[[Rev 6:11]] KJV* And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

2. They were told to continue to Rest ( being Dead) Till the last servant that should be killed be fulfilled.
No Resurrection till the last servant should be killed.

harnessandleash said...

Scott - on the topic of time -Fruchtenbaum (Footsteps of the Messiah) as well as other prophecy teachers believe the 4th beast is an imperialistic world system of the Roman Empire (which never really died, but just continues to evolve today).

Dan. 7:8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words."

Speculation is that the ten horns will be a system of dividing the world (or at the very least, European countries) into ten geopolitical areas. The AC will be "plucking out' three of these & then become the 'answer man' for the world.

Fruchtenbaum says the Rapture could conceivably happen many, many years before the AC is revealed. Yes, the Rapture can happen at any time & may cause MANY things to happen immediately thereafter. I also agree with your opinion that Israel is living without walls now. But with respect to geopolitical lines being drawn, lined up with the way Daniel describes it, it doesn't look like we're even close to this happening yet. Is it your opinion that The Church won't be around to see any of the precursors leading up to the way the world map will have to look?

Scott said...

Yea, I know Fruchtenbaum sees a bigger gap between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation...Of course its all speculation since no one knows and the prophetic scriptures don't indicate. I have no idea. I believe it will be a briefer timeframe, but that is my own speculation (I believe the 'window' of opportunity will present itself soon after the Rapture and if the AC were to wait too long, other 'powers' would step up...The rapture will create a huge 'void' in world leadership which will be filled one way or the other.

I don't unerstand "But with respect to geopolitical lines being drawn, lined up the way Daniel describes it...doesn't look like we are close yet."....I'm not sure I understand that. I believe all conditions are met today with regard to Gog-Magog and/or Isa 17...The coalition could be formed very quickly -- we already have Turkey-Iran-Russia aligned and Northern Africa would be easy to pull in. (FWIW, I believe its entirely possible that the 'invading force' could consist of 'fighters' from the regions mentioned in N Africa without necessarily dictating that certain countries formally declare war on Israel, at the time of Gog-Magog. That is something else worth pondering.

But I do believe we are very close to those events happening - It could be a matter of weeks.

I believe that the Church will not be here to witness Gog-Magog - simply because during the Church age we live by faith not by sight and Gog-Magog is very much a "sight" thing, as God will reveal Himself to the world. To me, that is highly inconsistent with the Church age dispensation.

Scott said...

Watcher - I'm not sure what you are saying...Yes. Those saints came to Christ during the Tribulation and were killed during the Tribulation. (My point was - they responded to the Angels, the two witnesses or the 144,000 sealed.

Their souls are in heaven. They will not receive their Glorified Bodies until the Tribulation is complete, and they, along with the Jewish (OT) saints, will receive their glorified bodies at the same time (at the end of the Tribulation) - that is why they are said to be at rest - and not 'resurrected' until the end of the Tribulation.

harnessandleash said...

My interpretation of "Ten Kingdom Divisions" was that the world (or at least European countries) would be divided into 10 areas-- not self governing, independent countries the way things are now. Meaning-- the economical and/or political circumstances will cause a redrawing of alliances different than what we see today. Are you saying the Ten Kings are just countries we see today?