Of course most of us watch the signs due to our deep desire to be with Christ - to be in His very presence for a vast array of reasons. Personally, I live for that moment - that moment that we will be in His very presence. The chance to fall at His feet and worship Him directly and in person. The opportunity to thank Him for what He did on the cross. To see His face. To be with Him. To talk directly with Him.
Most of us live for that moment.
It will be by far the most significant, meaningful, fulfilling, exciting, exhilarating, emotional, gratifying, loving, tender, beautiful moment that can possibly be imagined.
Of course all of that goes without saying. This is the moment that we are all living for. It is what keeps us prophecy watchers going - it is what keeps us energized and excited. As wonderful as Heaven and New Jerusalem will be and all of the wonders that it will hold - all of that will pale in comparison with simply being in the presence of Jesus. That moment cannot come soon enough for us.
But beyond that - there are solid scriptural reasons that we watch the signs of His coming. The scriptures will be listed below.
But it is our job - with this knowledge to spread this word. It isn't being done by the churches, it isn't being done by most pastors - so it is up to us to spread this message - not only to the Church but to everyone.
Time is growing short. We must get this word out and soon, as this age is rapidly coming to a close.
The scriptures below all pertain to Jesus' command to watch for His return.
Aren't the reasons obvious?
How do we want Jesus to find us when He returns? Earnestly watching and waiting for Him because our intense love for Him dictates such?
Or - not really caring or concerned about His return. Not even caring enough to entertain the possibility that He will return. Which attitude would please Jesus the most?
Jesus actually made His desires quite clear and we would be wise to pay attention to His words:
"Be dressed and ready for service and keep your lamps burning like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him.
It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes.
It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night.
You must also be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
[Here we see Jesus addressing the fact that His followers, at the time of His first coming didn't know or understand the prophecies about His coming]
"He said to the crowd: When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'It's going to rain', and it does. And when the south wind blows, you say 'It's going to be hot' and it is.
You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?"
In other words, they knew about the signs in the weather, because such knowledge was important to them for farming purposes, etc. So what does it say about them for not knowing the prophetic signs of Christ's coming?
"Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. It's like a man going away; He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back - whether in the evening or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly do not let him find you sleeping.
What I say to you I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"
"Therefore keep watch because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."
Each of these commands to watch - were coming just after Jesus had described the signs of His coming, so the obvious context of these commands was watching these very signs.
Each of these commands to watch - were coming just after Jesus had described the signs of His coming, so the obvious context of these commands was watching these very signs.
Now we can turn to Jesus' words just after His resurrection, starting with His conversation with the two men leaving Jerusalem towards Emmaus - two men who obviously had no understanding of the prophecies concerning Jesus death and resurrection:
"He said to them, 'How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?' And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the scriptures concerning himself."
[Imagine that. Jesus considered these men slow of heart. Not slow of intellect. Slow of heart. They were considered by Jesus to be slow of heart for not understanding the prophecies about His coming to earth. That alone is some serious food for thought isn't it?]
In Luke's version of the post-resurrection period, the next story involved Jesus' appearing to His disciples and His message was basically the same:
"He said to them, 'This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures."
So we can easily see that Jesus immediate concern in the post-resurrection scenario was explaining the prophecies which related to His coming - prophecies that were missed by His followers - and the importance of prophecy and how understanding such prophecies (of His coming) is a matter of the heart.
In short - knowing and understanding the prophecies about Jesus coming - whether the first or second, or the gathering up of the Church Saints - is important to Jesus, therefore it should be important to us.
It also reveals our heart for Jesus, our love for Jesus and our longing to be with Him.
Perhaps the apostle Paul captured this sentiment best in 2 Timothy 4:8
"Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
Watching is hard - we all know that. It is hard for a variety of reasons that have been discussed before. Over time, living with the minute to minute anticipation of being with and seeing Christ Jesus can be difficult and tiring. But it will be well worth it - and more importantly, it reveals a deep devotion and love for Jesus.
When He comes - I want Him to find me watching - waiting - expecting - hoping - just as any bride awaits the wedding day.
It will happen. That moment. The signs tell us it will be soon.
We know from the scriptures that our waiting, our watching and our excitement will be pleasing to Jesus.
What a great way to enter paradise.
See you all there.
What a glorious moment it will be.
Awesome article Scott, i pray every day that i am worthy to be taken up in the rapture and to escape the things to come. Luke 21:36
which begs the question, and I still BELIEVE that once SAVED forever saved....
I cannot ACCEPT the idea that people will be left behind based
on whether they are "worthy" or
not...that implies "working for salvation"
and that is a NO NO from what I
know of the Bible. If one person
could say HA HA I am more WORTHY then you so i will go and YOU will
be left behind....
HEY HEY HEY
what about the FINISHED work of Christ on the CROSS ??
ONLY that is WORTHY...
think about it.
like it or not those who are saved were saved before the foundation of the world. those who are worthy to escape these things, as the Bible states, are those who have been saved again before the foundation of the world.
those who have been chosen are permanently indwelt with the Holy Spirit apon conversion ,and that will never be changed by anyone or anything .being worthy simply means you are savedthrough God's grace and nothing more.
those who are worthy are the children of God ...chosen by God to be saved .
those who will be left behind will be those unbelievers when the Rapture occurs .during the Tribulation however many will be saved .though it is too late for the Rapture for them, as long as they do not take the mark of the beast ,they will spend eternity with Christ upon their death .but since they were initially left behind they will be hunted down like animals. those post rapture believers who survive the tribulation will be spiritually saved also ,but they will endure 7 years of unimaginable hell on earth ....surviving as a believer during the Great Tribulation will be next to impossible ...but for some,physical survival will take place . and by the way the 144,000 the Bible speaks of are those,during the Tribulation ,who will witness to the world and therefore, many will be saved . those 144000 will be supernaturally protected by God himself .
if you would like Scripture which supports being chosen by God before the foundation of the world I will be happy to send it to you....feel free to email me at this firstname.lastname@example.org
my names Karen --God bless !
I know once saved always saved, i am very aware of that. I was just simply saying i pray that i am accounted worthy by God, not man.
I don't in any way think i am better than anyone, i am a rotten sinner that deserves to go to hell, but by the blood of my Saviour Jesus Christ, i am forgiven.
Also i don't think works will get anybody to heaven,
Ephesians 2:8-9 says,
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So basically what I see here is
that MANY WILL BE SAVED after the
rapture, of course, but is it
true that these people have been
CHOSEN from the beginning EXCEPT
that for one reason or another, they delayed their choice until
the rapture hits ??
Maybe they felt for whatever reason that they did NOT have
enough proof OF GOD before said
rapture to accept Jesus ??
Scott, what do you think ??
David H - you are 'worthy' if you have accepted the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross and His taking on your sin and judgment - as you referenced from Ephesians. I believe we were all 'chosen' to come to Christ from the beginning, but of course some reject that gift. There is ample proof of God.
Karen - thanks for those thoughts.
As brother Hal likes to say - as soon as you introduce ANY form of works - you diminish what was done on the cross, and we can never ever ever diminish what was done on the cross.
So am I wrong to pray this?
After Jesus goes through the end time scenario, He clearly states in verse 36....
Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
I was just doing what Jesus commanded us to do.
Yes...accepting Jesus sacrifice as a REPENTENT sinner and being indwelt with Holy Spirit seals one as Saved ...forever. tho we know we wl BATTLE , not embrace, our sins until glorification wn Raptured.
However, not EVRYone wz Chosen to follow Christ...if evryone had bn chosen to follow thn all WD follow since Gods plan wd hav not failed. Scripture supports thoz who were NOT chosen as well..." Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" being only one example out of many. Bible clearly states thoz who are not chosen for salvation..EPH 1:5-"He predestined us.." ACTS 13:48-"..all who were appointed for eternal life.." ACTS 22:14-"God has chosen you..." 2 THES- " God chose you to be saved.." 2 TIM. 1:9-10: "He saved us before the beginning of time.." 2 COR. 4:4-" The god of this world has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel...".
God allows Satan to blind eyes since those people were never part of Gods plan for salvation...ever. many will argue this bases on man's flawed understanding, therefore, we must cling to wht the Scriptures tell us.
it's important to remember that God tells us His ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts ...so if we can't comprehend some being shows for eternal damnation we end up rejecting what the Bible says and pride kicks in thinking being chosen for eternal salvation or eternal DAMNATION simply cannot be true ...we need to take our human logic out of it and not try to fit God's ways into our way of attempting to make sense of it..this is where absolute trust comes in !
Shd hv said..." So if we can't comprehend some being CHOSEN for eternal damnation....." Plus typos ( using cell phone making it difficult... :-/
David H said "So am I wrong to pray this?
After Jesus goes through the end time scenario, He clearly states in verse 36...."
The "end time scenario" you refer to, is the Tribulation. Jesus is clearly speaking to those during the Tribulation, as He does in Matthew 24...
But b careful wn u use the word CHOICE..as in CHOOSING to b saved?? I'm assuming that's wht u ment...Man Dz not CHOOSE hz salvation...that wd b a WORKS.
Again, its Gods GRACE, not man's choosing. that saves us. God decides who is saved, and not evryone one is chosen to b saved.
We r all deserving of damnation and God chooses sm to b spared an eternity in hell. The rest go thr due to Gods purpose, of which, we can only minimally attempt to undrstand.
Again..if ALL wr chosen to b saved, thn all WD b saved since Gods plan w b perfectly executed.
And yes, man chooses hell but God sees to it that thr eyes remain closed for that vry purpose.
I am more of a free will guy. I do not believe God chooses to send folks to hell. If that is what you are saying. It is not his will that any man should perish. God chooses us in the sense he foreknew the decisions man would make before we made them.
Hell was prepared for the devil and his angles. Those who go there are are basically choosing to spend eternity with satan rather than Christ.
God doesn't send someone to hell, they send themselves there..
This life has many choices, eternity has only two.
I'm not entirely sure what you are pushing here - but lets get back to focusing on the signs that we hav ebeen given to watch - which is the central focus of this site, and specifically this post.
Lets not get distracted from that effort. Its ironic - that in the midst of such an urgent calling - and pointing that out in this post - we would immediately get distracted from that very "mission" that we have been given. The opposite of what I am trying to communicate in this post.
so lets get bACK to the focus of watching the signs and spreading THAT word.
WV and Mrs C - I agree with your thoughts.
Yes I ment the tribulation.
Hmm, Jesus speaking to those in the tribulation, seems to make sense.
I never thought of it like that..
You learn something new every day, thanks for your insite...
Yes..man Dz send hmself to hell, bt God makes sure thoz unbelieving eyes r blinded and stay blinded.. It all goes back to God being in FULL control of ALL things..not jst a few.
Gid dznt wait for man to make any surprising decisions. He knows the outcome of evry detail based on His plan and purpose.
And tho man Dz make choices ( ie: his will) that so-called freewill is guided evry step of the way so Gods eternal purpose will b realized for evry single person. Proverbs 3:6 is only one example of Godscomplete control in our lives. Proverbs 16:4 makes it clear that God works out everything , including the plans of the "wicked"..all for His purpose.
God loves all His Creation, evn thoz in Hell. He ALLOWS thm thr rightful place but is not responsie for thr being thr. God allows that evry bit as much as He allows disaster in this world...ISAIAH 45:7.
Don't mean to divert the focus. And yes, staying focused on Jesus soon return. for His bride is incredibly exciting!!
Totally Awesome!!!!!! I needed this today, this encouragement! May I share it on my blog? I believe many will benefit from your oh so timely words! Thanks and God Bless you Scott!
G'day all, in trying to keep inline with Scott's wishes, I'll put these verses up.
James 2:14-26, Romans 6, Gal 6:14-16 (in particular 15b-16), Ephesians 2:8-10 (in particular v 10), Philiians 3:12-16, Colossians 1:13-14.
Revelations 14:12 speaks of the tribulation but a Christian is a Christian and we all have the same duties to fulfill wether we are pre, mid or post trib saints.
All of us have a requirement to have faith in Jesus and to express that faith in Good works. If we don't express our faith I guess we are either not saved, living in unrepented sin or we are just uneducated in the principles of basic Christianity.
Salvation is given to us so that we can do the good things God planned for us long ago, and individually we need to be asking Christ to put His yoke on us to teach us and guide us so we can follow the process of being the new person that the father wants us to. It's ok to say that "I'm a Christian", but am I living that faith by my good works (James 2:17-20)?
If we have washed our robes in Christ's blood then we need to follow through on that washing and 'live the cleansing', or to put in other words, 'achieve the accomplished'. Achieve the accomplished work of Christ by steadily doing the good that he has put in us through his regenerating work in His Spirit and the work he accomplished on the cross. I know one way we can do that! Fan into flame the love he has put into us by His Spirit and walk the walk that Christ did whilst He was on earth.
Sorry Scott, I'll say no more.
Hey, I'm just curious.
"al of us have a requirement...to express that faith in good works"
I agree that we all should make every effort to engage in good 'works'...Agree 100%. But is this a requirement for salvation?
If not expressing faith by good works is a sin, is this somehow different from other sins? Are we to categorize sins?
If we've sinned once, haven't we sinned them all?
Didn't Jesus die for ALL of our sins? Including the sin of not doing good works?
If good works were to somehow be a requirement - How many? For how long? How are they measures qualitatively? Why don't we have specific instructions?
Are we saved by what Jesus did on the cross AND "manifesting good works"? I've never seen the salvation message in the Bible ever say anything like that.
Jesus died for ALL of our sins - past, present and future. Period.
Just wanted to make that clear just in case there was any ambiguity :)
Simply amazing...Brother Scott makes a request and yet there is just complete ignoring of this. Using "but" or just rolling over his request with a steam roller.
There are a gazillion blogs/sites out there for the finite discussions for that which Brother Scott requested NOT to be discussed here. Yet with complete disregard and respect for this blog owners request, it just continues. At the same time, attempting to define a Christian "works" etc., attempting to instruct others how they should be as "Christians", while you yourselves are being a poor witness to others with your complete disregard and flat out rudeness to Brother Scott...sigh...Come quickly Lord Jesus...
Msinop - of course - and thanks, I'm glad to hear that. I actually needed to hear it myself :)
Well stated Scott,
Personal i think doing good works is a good witness, my friend in work was under pressure one day so i decided to give him a hand and he said why are you helping me and i simply replied im doing it in the name of Jesus.
You should have seen the look i got :)
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
IMHO, you are not saved because of your fruits but you live a fruitful life because you are saved.
Well, if you stay walking with the Lord you do but once saved always saved. I don't remember any membership maintenance fees included in the requirement for salvation.
Forgive me if im wrong, but is anyone angry at me for my post today.
It seems to be getting alot of attention..
I didn't mean to stir people up..
So i do apologise if i offended anyone
At the risk of creating a 'heretic burning' session for myself, read what I said guys. I see nothing in there about merits and brownie points etc etc. I'm all for salvation by faith alone, but now that we're saved we need to express that faith in good works such as helping someone simply because I'm a Christian.
Scott I'm sorry you take offence at these scriptures but at the end of the day we can't express our faith perfectly (something else i failed to include), but then again living a life of say unrepentant adultery is not expressing my faith according to the glory of God.
I didn't write the Bible!
Calm down people, this is no way to treat your international brothers and sisters in Christ. I tell you what if heaven is filled with cold, intellectual theologians like I see here, then maybe I'm in the wrong faith. But if heaven is all about love, understanding and patience recognising that Christians think differently and see things differently then yay I'm in the right faith.
I tell ya, the heretic burning that goes on here against Christians in particular is terrible. Those poor Christians who've expressed differing opinions not fully inline with the theological exactness of this site are promptly cut down and never recover. That is terrible guys!! What are you afraid of? I'd encourage you to keep this a Christian site and not a theological dictatorship.
Ok MRS C, bring on your cutting and pasting. If you wish you can even dig up the past and quote my old phrases.
Terrible guys, terrible!
I love when sometimes its seems when I come to this page and its all bad news. I mean you know things that lead us into the Tribulation. And then its as though you know when I have a heavy heart and then you post these kinds of posts with scriptures that back up what we already know.
I am truly greatful and appreciate your Blog very much. I have learned so much from you and others who post.
I can't Thank You enough for this wonderful Blog!
Things are happening so fast...hope to see you all soon. :)
Interesting Brother DDU…”cutting and pasting” is just the simple quoting of words said by the imposters reminding them of what they had said in the past. You know Brother, the ones that visit here specifically to cause strife. Just repeating to them, the imposters, what they said…it must be tough for them to try to deceive other Brothers and Sisters, and forget all the lies they have said over the years.
You know, you’ve been around long enough to see it, right? They even pretend to be from other countries imagine THAT! No Brother DDU, no need to remind you of what you’ve said in the past…your words your speaking now are pretty demonstrative of your “fruit”…
Dave A - Who is offended? I don't see anyone offended. We're looking at what the scriptures say and I asked questions (which still haven't been addressed, but thats ok).
But to create a strawman - which in this case is someone being offended - then to suggest to "calm down" (another form of a strawman - as no one isn't 'calm') - seems strange to me.
Why this hyperbole? Why not simply discuss the scriptures and a point of view without adding such strawmen arguments? I don;t understand that motive.
Getting back on track however..
"cold, intellectual theologians". What does that mean? I'm unclear on that as well. What, in your opinion constitutes a "cold. intellectual theologian"?
I thought we were having a discussion about Works based salvation vs Free Grace (?) - so why add all of this nonsense to the discussion?
When I see such things, I smell a hidden agenda - and I'm just being honest.
Or maybe my "real job" in medicine/research, I'm not used to such diversions.....More...--->
Dave H - same comments as above,.
This is what I find interesting, ok (below) - and lets take a step back and look at the big picture here:
I post, what is intended to be an uplifting recognition of the need to watch the signs of Jesus' coming - and the beauty of that moment when we meet Jesus. All hope and joy and nothing but good news. A little shot of positive energy as we see descending darkness coming our way. A little hope and joy based on the fact that we'll be meeting with Jesus soon.
And then we come to the comments, and somehow the whole positive message devolves into a discussion of works based salvation - or something similar to that - then comes strawmen arguments, and the feigned appearance that someone (I suppose me) - is being "cold", "Heretic burning", needing to 'calm down' etc - none of which is true and none of which was remotely suggested.
SO......Given the original intent of this post, and the subsequent comments section - who changed the face of this entire message today?
Take a step back and look at the big picture.
Now...Care to go back to the discussion and take a stab at my questions, which pertain to Works vs Free Grace, in an adult, non-manipulative manner?
I'm going to leave this stuff up for a while because honestly, this thread speaks for itself IMO
Scott it's a possibility I've interpreted your wording after my original post as confrontational and not as a willingness for a discussion.
I'll be honest with you , I don't understand your question WRT salvation.
Lets just get along, for Jesus' sake! Please! Surely I've been here long enough for everyone to know I'm not an impostor!
For goodness sake !
Go back and see what I said and the questions. They pertain to Free Grace vs Works. I'm not sure how else to address. I highly suggest taking an hour or so and reading Andy Stanley's "How Good Is Good enough", but as I type this, I am remembering having this exact same discussion before, but it may not have been with you
Scott thank you for such a beautiful post...time is so short and we can hear the footsteps of our beautiful King Jesus.
Sandra for another Country up North!!
(Just being Canadian and joking)
Sandra and Bella - many thanks! God Bless - your comments are greatly appreciated. I agree - time is short - which further emphasizes what our focus should be.
Hi Scott, ok I've sat down and read your question. My wife and I have today off.
My best answer is: the devil and his demons know who God is but choose even after being His subjects to no longer agree with him and his kingdom principles and have rejected Him as Lord.
True faith not only believes in God (even without seeing him) but agrees to submit to His Lordship.
Believing in the Lordship of Christ is to be saved, its a done deal. I can never improve on Christ's work on the cross. His perfection is now mine and I'm delivered from my old life of sin.
As far as I can tell by what I read in the Bible I'm saved ( by Christ's death on the Cross), I'm now being saved (slowly being delivered from my old nature by Christs resurection), and I'm going to be saved (fully changed from my old self at Christ's coming).
Is it necessary to salvation? I think it's important that we show ourselves loyal and obedient subjects and that we constantly live by the principle of constantly becoming the new person that Christ has called us to be. Didn't Jedus say that there will be those who will say to me Lord Lord, you know the verse. As far as answering is it necessary to salvation! I m not too sure. I think according to both camps, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Hope that's an appropriate answer. This site looks to be reformed and I'm somewhere in the middle. I used to be reformed down the line years ago.
The devil and the demons indeed do know that information, but obviously they have not nor would ever accept the gift of salvation, even if they are 'eligible'. So that is largely irrelevant to this discussion IMO (I don't see the link).
A human could also understand the way to salvation and still reject it outright - again, this is tangential to the discussion, if relevant at all.
"True faith not only believes in God but agrees to submit to His Lordship" ((Ok, I think I see where you are coming from in terms of Lordship salvation - which I reject 100% fwiw))
Here is the problem I have with this POV. ANd it always goes back to works based salvation - every time.
How does one define "Submit to His Lordship"?
Does this mean not sinning after salvation?
If not - then how does one define the exact parameters of this "submit"?
So is this saying that its NOT good enough to accept the gift of the cross? It needs to be that AND "Submitting to His Lordship?"
Understand this. Obviously we should attempt to do everything we can to live a Christ-like life and everything that involves. But we ALL fall short of that mission.
So how do you decide who is and who isn't?
It ALWAYS goes back to "works based" vs "Free Grace". Every time.
So in effect, what Lordship Salvation folks are ultimately saying is this:
It has to be "The Cross +________"
But salvation isn't "The Cross +______"....Its simply "The Cross".
No "+" is ever needed.
You, or someone mentioned something about "serial adultery"...In the context of revealing that someone is unsaved. Is that different than "serial yell at drivers on the highway?" - "serial adulterous thoughts'? or "serial anger?"
Salvation is absolute. Thats why Jesus said "It is finished".....He didn't say "It is not QUITE finished, because you need to now prove your salvation by _, _, and _"....
Never says that.
You see, once you introduce the concept of adding to what Jesus did on the cross, you open pandora's box and it is impossible to close. Once you start down that path, you ultimately end up with what the Jews were doing when Christ arrived the first time.
That is very much food for deep thought IMO
I believe once saved always saved, yes Jesus died for our past, present and future sins..
Yes Scott it is finished, He didn't say its just started
It was my understanding that if we were not ready when Jesus came back for his bride we would be left behind,
Now that is not saying we would lose our place in heaven..
Its saying we would lose our place at the marriage supper of the Lamb..
Not from not doing good works, but by not watching and being ready,
In Matt 25:1-13
It talks about the 10 virgins, 5 were ready and 5 were not and the ones who were not ready were left outside.
They asked to come in but were told i don't know you.
Then in verse 13 it says, watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
If Christians are not ready, will they be left outside?
I don't know for sure..
That's why i pray about Luke 21:36
I don't want to be left behind...
Love and respect
Scott, faith without works is dead, correct? So then if the devil has faith in God to believe that he is God, but refuses to submit to His Lordship, ie takes himself out of his place as God's chief angel, which he has done then satan's belief in God is dead and is no longer counted as faith. That is why I believe James's message is and the standard of faith for all believers. "Faith without works is dead" it's all there. So I can see its relevance in this discussion.
I don't find it hard to believe that faith without works is dead, it is written!
I also know that we can fall by the hardness of our hearts into unrepented of sin. How long we stay there depends on God waking us up and showing us our sin. I have been there many times. I also know that we can deliberately sin against Christ. The thing is is that we can confess our sin to him and we will be forgiven, 70 x 7. I agree.
Maybe I'm talking about Growth in grace. I'm not too sure(sad) but I do know that we need to be growing in Grace and we have a part to play. Sure Christ has paid the price and its finished, and he has opened the way for us to now play our part in our growth and be obedient to Gods Holy, every day calling.
I really don't see the problem with being submissive to Christ. Ive said from my first post that we do good works because we're saved.
Faith without works is dead. Plain and simple. You can have the last day Scott, I'm worn out! Lol
I think it's good to have all these discussions and staying watchful for Christ's return in the clouds should be our primary focus .but I think it's good to discuss the whole works topic since I dare say many so called Christians believe works are what saves us which is a satanic lie. so called Christians who believe their belief alone saves thm might see the truth thru these discussions .
James 2:17 couldn't be more clear :"Thus also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead "--- cd it b any more clear...good works don't save, but being saved produces good works. we don't sin less to BECOME saved; we sin less because we ARE saved. Lordship Salvation---Christ is our everything---it,d b interesting to know how many stay watchful but believe their faith, without REPENTENCE , is biblical.---THAT'S why these exchanges r good---eyes can b opened. Yes, we continue in sin but one who is saved dznt live for those sins anymore--sin,s power has bn weakened but not elimated. Those saved don't walk perfectly, but walk progressively with and for Christ, rejecting as much sin as possible along the way.
NO REPENTENCE = NO SALVATION.
The Thief on the Cross, didnt have a whole lotta time for a list of sins to repent, nor did he have ANY TIME for "works". NONE, NADA. He simply BELIEVED in his heart that Jesus was and is the "Messiah". He SPOKE, that Jesus was indeed the Messiah! With the simplicity of a child, the Thief was welcomed by Jesus into Heaven THAT DAY!
The Centurion, he didnt "repent", he didnt perform ANY works, yet Jesus HEALED his servant instantly! Again, the Centurion BELIEVED in Jesus! and Jesus told that Centurion that his FAITH was greater than ANY he had found, even in Jerusalem!
Jesus makes it very simple, so simple, and yet a Pharisaical spirit takes over people and they believe they have to jump through hoops to be Saved and even that some how they have to maintain their Salvation some how. God Himself didnt make it difficult to Believe in His Son. I often see those who just have such a hard time Believing its so easy, have a vision of God as not a Loving Father, but rather a lightning bolt throwing Judgmental Father which is so erred.
Believe like a child Jesus told us, not analyze, doubt and over complicate. Finally on this ridiculous "works" nonsense. Lets take a situation where a person is UNABLE to perform "works". HOW BOUT DISABLED Brothers and Sisters! You mean to tell me that they are not SAVED because they are unable to perform these ridiculous works sitting in a wheelchair for example! They love the Lord with ALL THEIR HEART! They BELIEVE! THAT is ALL THAT IS REQUIRED! IT IS ABOUT THE HEART!
As simple as the Faith of a child, just as Jesus said...
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
And Lordship Salvation absolutely Dz not mean The Cross + __________. Not sure whr that perspective originated. Lordship salvation Dz mean submission and repentence. And thr r no " parameters" to sin. Sin is sin--evn stealing a paperclip being worthy of hell. But that's not evn the point. Lordship involves ATTEMPTING to gv our ALL to Christ..surrendering goals, cares, sins, ambitions..u name it...to Him, knowing The Lord is in ABSOLUTE control bt also knowing our attempts to sin LESS ( not to b confused with SINLESS) wl never reach perfection. Lordship is giving up on ME and surrendering to THEE....wht is it about that, that one wd find disagreeable...
I have patiently sat back and just tried to find some understanding in these untimely and unfortunate hit and run postings. I want to share what is on my heart this morning without attack. It may sound like it but I am prefacing this now this is a determination for God's word to shine and disgust for the ongoing games over this. I believe this site is blessed and to be used for Gods purposes in these last days, not constant, cruel and twisted teachings.
First, Dave and the imposters (and I am calling it as it is instead of entertaining this game any longer without going into detail) Scott posted something positive and a redirect because constantly there has been too much entertainment of partaking in the distractions of the world instead of using that in knowledge; it is being used as folly like play. I for one am so grateful for the heartfelt and what I believe was a HS lead writing. Clearly, God needed us to be reminded where our focus is. I suspect it struck a chord with some of our imposters and out comes the defenses.
Day in and day out disrespectfully the posts start veering off about money and chasing the anti-Christ. Continually the focus becomes of this world, when we are not to conform to it but be transformed from it. IMO, I believe these articles are to show us the signs; not entertain falsehoods on top of that. At the end of the day, with the help of the HS we all have the choice to do good or bad. To continually pull others into ones false thinking's (not referring to you Scott) is selfish, heartless and shows a lack of will or work to get on the right road after many corrections for over two years now. That shows me this is a deliberate choice to be a thorn instead of light in helping the lost.
Dave, you came back after much rifting last time and the first thing you last casted out last night is play the victim card. I am going to say it, your speaking (s) are very, very familiar and I believe you are seeking help but are too proud to just come out and ask.
Now, this topic that has been distorted about works based thinking vs. faith base thinking is even more insulting --even to the best of our imposters. You know the difference and you know we know that. Your past postings prove that and more. This has become a sick and cruel game to distort the truth and add confusion just one more day.
I for one can't stand with a brother or sister in Christ who keeps entertaining angels like this - aware or unaware. Maybe that is what you should be reading about right now in scripture. Because of this whole Catholic talk permeating back into many forums as a segway, this tactic has dragged on. As stated we have had this same conversation before and as Brothers and Sisters in Christ for over two years; under all your names, we have redirected you back to the word and it's true meaning and you chose to mock us and do it only your way.
You have been on here playing the great theologian on one day and then play the victim the next to suite your fanciful flights. This is simple and I will even simplify it for you. You know we are no longer slaves to sin. Many who are grateful for the love of Christ's sacrifice to die for us on that cross; sometimes prompts them to go out and do even greater works like they are expected to pay something back, which they are not.
AMEN x a billion sister.
With works based salvation, then, just as the Jews were doing under the law - it all becomes an arbitrary game.
AND - if the "works based" people are correct - then its an arbitrary matter of TIMING. In their world, you would be FAR FAR FAR better off coming to Christ at your deathbed - because under that scenario you wouldn't have had time to sin or to have engaged in "good works" - so this system favors the deathbed conversion,
As you state - the thief on the cross never engaged in a SINGLE 'God work" yet mysteriously, Jesus allowed him into heaven immediately.
So the world of "works" devolves into a meaninglesss arbitrary set of rules - and JUST LIKE the pharisees.
And always note this fact - The works crowd ALWAYS points to the sins that OTHER PEOPLE are engaging in, or not engaging in - Just like the Pharisees used to do - they rarely point to "their sins" as being the "deal-breaker" on salvation, but point to other peoples sins as the deal breakers.
Once again - this time with feeling:
JESUS DIED FOR ALL SINS
Again - can someone specifically define what "Good works" are necessary for salvation? Over how long of a period?
So someone could die, and die ONE GOOD WORK SHORT of what is necessary for salvation? Ouch, that would hurt wouldn't it?
We have no definition of what these good works are. What kind of God does that? Sets out these vague "rules" that no one understands, yet salvation is dependent on it?
That should be "Good work" by the thief on the cross
There is nothing to pay-back as the price has been paid. The jail doors flung open, we just need to accept the invitation and go on and live sinless and blameless (though we all fall short). With that falling short and sinning daily requires constant acknowledgement in seeking forgiveness and to repent, to turn away.
Sometimes, though I can't speak for all, many Christian's like to flaunt their good works to the world because their gratitude makes them feel like they are on the right track and in a different way their gratitude for Christ is doing more harm than good, in that simple sense of explanation. That is no different than standing on a soap box sharing all the wonderful charitable things they have done. God does not want us operating like that. That is boastful, arrogant and prideful in a sense. There is the humble spirit of living and the contrite. There have been some wrong teachings in the churches about works vs. faith as the way to heaven. We are to stick to God's word and not add to it nor take away from it.
He has a purpose and reasoning for that, to reduce these constant false teachings spread by the saved and unsaved, especially in these last days.
Secondly, there is a very large group of Gods children living among us who are not saved. They believe because they have heard of God, they know God. They may have shown up to church for years, been the kindest and greatest person on earth, but may have chosen to ignore the signs of what was presented to them, that being the gospel. Many will miss the mark because they haven't received the gift of Salvation that God has offered through his son, Jesus.
Stop there and think of that. While sitting here playing these hurtful mind games, someone is truly slipping through the cracks because they are believing they are saved because they are good but they did not receive the gift of salvation. That is heartbreaking but true. There is time for this to be corrected but wasting time like this is not helping and I believe you have known that all along.
We all can be making a difference and that is our call to duty right now to help them. Not claim we have our spot and add confusion in the camp while waiting for his arrival. Last night there was a replay on Turning Point with Dr. David Jeremiah. His messages on July 24th and July 25th are about "One Man Ruling the World". This is about all this time spent in prophecy following Christ, not the anti-Christ. Listen to it. Go to the link and look under radio archives, you will find it there.
God knows my heart and I have been amazed as he has spread his grace on thee on this board. I believe you are many fake people and you are lost, scared and bored. We know who you are and you still return as the victim or as other characters over money, etc. Yes, it is all a lie. The time has come when we must separate from these distractions. If you, Karen, Stephen and all are up at 3:00am distorting the truth, how about pulling together and reading the truth. How about turning this into a witnessing effort instead of a constant falsehood into the day light and wee hours for over two years now. It's grinding in so many ways.
I will most likely be attacked today for this, and I am apologizing upfront that this is not cruelty speaking but mere disgust for the constant distortion of our Father's word. I do believe you know what you are doing and very soon you have a lot of explaining to do.
Please take these final explanations and research goodness and stop this cruel game you are partaking in. You clearly are lost, confused and scared because you keep choosing to sin daily and want to justify it through these distorted postings. I believe you are seeking but come back as a true seeker and learn and grow. Not argumentative in nature and playing these constant, mean, cruel games of distorting Gods word in the wee hours. It is very old.
May today prove to be a turning point for us all in a new direction with greater understanding to do things Gods way, not the imposters, game playing way.
I'm going to close this one.
It was interesting but is now becoming circular.
Once again, this is a site intended to encourage other Christians about the hope and joy about the Coming Christ, and hopefully non-Christians can find their way here as well and understand that Christ's coming in imminent.
As stated before, there are some excellent sites out there where one can engage in robust doctrinal discussions such as this.
Thanks in advance for recognizing this
Hi Scott and GG2013
THANK YOU for your closing thoughts! I was truly troubled over this last night and started to pray that the Holy Spirit would intervene, GG2013 you answered my prayer...Thank you for obedient truth.
Amen and Amen GG and Scott! Jesus paid it all!!!
While maybe not your aim Scott to have this discussion I think it was well worth the effort to clarify just how good God is and just how simple the Gospel message is.
Yes...thr is no payback and no "goodwrks get us to heaven" bt I think that's how its being interpretted here. I addressed Mrs C concerning thief and thoz not able to produce good works. Message wz either deleted or I didn't press the Publish button like I thought .
God sent King david's son to heaven and King David knew he would see him again. those too young to discern and those mentally unable to discern go to heaven. That should partially address mrsC's comment . Tru belief and tru repentence r mutually inseparable. What did Jesus say to prostitute:"Sin no more"....if " belief alone" saves , thn Muslims, Catholics and mormons wd b saved....inspite of "believing" they r not saved. They hv not repented of following false doctrine. Tru belief IS repentence. If the Holy Spirit is in us thr WILL b repentent behavior, or inthe case of thoz taken before they can do good works-- a repentent heart.
It's that easy guys...The Holy Spirit sees to it we produce good wrks if God allows thoz opportunities.
"Karen" forgive me but didnt Brother Scott state that he was ending this discussion? ...sigh yet you continue to ignore him throughout this.
As for your comments, you are in error. "Repentance" is NOT a requirement to invite Jesus into your heart and welcome Him as your Savior. That is just a untrue as this "works" nonsense. As dear Sister GG stated, so much of this theme has been posted by imposters for years now. AC, going through the Trib, works, and the never ending "Repent" stated by obvious Pharisaical legalistic "Christians".
We ALL come to Him just as we are...unclean, full of sin. He doesnt require us to clean up so as to speak, BEFORE we come to Him. That comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sins. There are many, many "Saved" Brothers and Sisters who DID NOT recite every sin they had committed while in the process of accepting Jesus.
Again, that kind of false teaching, is running into the "works" nonsense too. As Brother Scott said regarding the "works, apply's also to the "repent". How much "repenting" would ya have to do in order to be Saved?
As for your example of disregarding "Belief", you can take that up with Jesus, as the Scripture I quoted CLEARLY did not state "repenting" as some kind of "condition" to be "Saved". Perhaps you didnt read it? If so, then heres another one, John3:16. Any requirement in that Scripture to "repent" or do "works" in that Scripture? NO, period. Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, the majority, obviously have not truly accepted Jesus, and are susceptible to false beliefs. Are they any different than those "Christians" who warm the pew benches in Church, and havent go a clue as to who Jesus truly is? No, there is no difference. And so it is, just as Jesus said these Last Days would be.
Jesus KNOWS His Sheep, and this may be a shock for you, but even amongst the Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, and yes the dead Churches around this world, there are those within them that He will call His own. Yes, there are Saved Brothers and Sisters there, that will indeed walk with Jesus. He tells us this clearly, when He addresses the deadest Church, Sardis...YES EVEN in the dead Church of Sardis, Jesus will call out His Own to walk with Him! He knows...you and I dont...why? because only He can truly know someones heart...
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
We don't repent to BE saved,,we repent bcz we ARE saved.
Umm...your own comments from your previous post from above...
"Karen carlson said...
NO REPENTENCE = NO SALVATION."
Repentence AS a saved Christian. Thr IS NO BIBLICAL REPENTENCE prior to conversion....
works cannot and do not save us...Fruits of the Spirit come forth as a supernatural outcome of presence of Holy Spirit...not before.
If one claims to b a Christian but demonstrates no desire to quench any existing
sin, that person is a liar and the truth is not on him...
1 John 2:4-6 " The man who says 'I know Him' but does not DO what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in Him. This is how we know we are in Him. Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did." ( my emphasis). I'm going to close the discussion due to the progressive anger I'm detecting. Amen~
Ok, I'll do this a tad longer.
So Karen, are you now saying that your view of 'repentance' is unrelated to salvation? IOW, if, in your view, someone CAN be still having some repetitive sin in their life (or what you would call unrepentant sin) and still be "saved"?
I'm getting confused.
This is a simple question - I'll play along with this as long as you answer directly, non-manipulatively and w/o becoming tangential. Otherwise I'll just delete because I'm not getting pulled into the usual games again
OK - I see you had posted at the same time as my question - thanks. So. In your view - one will lose their salvation with a repetitive sin.
So...I still get angry in traffic. My thoughts, at such times, are sinful and have been so since I was 16 and received my license. I've prayed about it and hve improved somewhat over the years, but its far from eliminated from my vast arsenal of other sins, but we'll just use this one as an example.
So, in your world, am I doomed to hell?
And as an aside - when did you stop sinning?
So Karen...with that view, and knowing that nobody lives a sin free life I guess your views of all our future is known.
Or did I miss something.....
So, perhaps you will share with us how you became sin free for all these years. No sin...even mental, repeated from your pre salvation days.
This should be good...
Pull up a chair everyone, kick back....
I got the pop corn
Who's got the wings and dip
How about some drinks....this should take a while.
Miss Karen.....you have the floor Ma'Lady.
Dear Ones in the Lord,
there is a lot of sarcasm in this that is not helping our "shine on the hill".
Just throwing out a reminder that VOLUMES have been written on this topic and the reason is that while we do not earn our salvation,we certainly are exhorted to use effort through the Spirit in living our lives now. He died our death that we could live His life. There certainly ARE expectations of pure religion ,caring for widows and orphans and tons of encouragement to walk in the Spirit, be filled in the Spirit, keep in step with the Spirit.
Our life is joyful amidst His indwelling. So of course we hate the sin we do. We confess it and agree with God concerning it. But the good work He began in us He will finish.'This has read like blind men all shouting out the part of the elephant they are touching. We are on DISPLAY before the heavenlies as recipients of His grace. But we are to live out our faith even to the point of carrying our own crosses daily. They don't save us,Christ does but our faith is Precious to Him. These are not in enmity to each other. Rather it takes living by faith or dying by faith to express to His glory His mercy which has called us OUT of Darkness and INTO HIS marvelous Light.
We never stop sinning; and I am a sinner as well.. thr r two types of sinners..saved sinners and unsaved sinners.Here's the difference..the eternally lost don't evn recognize their sin nor any sin in general. Thr not evn ABLE to recognize it for wht it is. they long for it and languish in it, feeling no conviction whatsoever. Here's the pivotal moment ...wn the Holy Spirit now endwells us. We may not evn realize it has happened yet, but a converted heart eventually manifests itself with the person realizing " something feels different and I'm not desiring to do thoz things I used to do." Sm hav dramatic conversions like Saul/Paul and he cd b a prime example of converted heart repentence..tho many conversions r much more subtle, Pauls life and perspective wr dramtically changed. Tho still a sinner , he wz now saved due to Gods intervention with changing his heart.Did he still long to round up Christians? No, God took it frm hz heart. His desire now wz to serve God instead of his sin. He wdv had to hav battled his still-present sinful nature wch , for all of us ,never goes away. The difference NOW tho wd b his and our desire to resist our sins as much as possible, knowing it wl b a daily battle until we see Christ..Christians arnt perfect but they ARE convicted. And that conviction frm the Holy Spirit keeps fighting our sin instead of embracing it like we used to. the battle never ends.
Repetitve sin...Dz the heart wnt to stop the sin and call out to God for strength or Dz the sin continue unabated with the person having no desire to stop? Do I hate my sin or do I love it? Do I war with it or do I embrace it? Do I seek God with my sin or do I ignore Him? God knows our hearts of course. Sin continues but its what we DO with our sin that draws the line in the sand.
Christians can backslide...look at King David. Murder, adultery and more. God never let go of him bc David had bn chosen from before the foundation of the world to b saved. God allows the eyes of some to remain blinded while He opens the eyes of others....a biblical truth many find highly offensive, thinking that makes God a tyrrant. bt The Lord makes it clear " You did not choose me; I chose you" .
I probably havnt addressed all ofwht u askt bt am on a cell and its dificult. I'll need to get yr blog on my computer.
I can tell yr a very Godly man, Scott, and if yr site hz opened the eyes to jst one lost soul, that alone makes it priceless. Yr doing Gods work, genuinely and faithfully!!I hv no doubt yr heart is staunchly focused on the Lord, hoping that others will c the light. I'm sure God will say to u: " well done, good and faithful servant".. :)
It's a shame, but maybe when comments start to go like this we should stop them, it doesn't look great to people who find the site seeking answers to questions or people new to prophecy!
Sometimes it maybe best to ignore troublesome posts rather than take the bait.
Is it possible for Scott to get a few trusted people to help him moderate and possible have a page with commonly asked questions which regulars can point people to rather than everyone having to dance around in circles?
We need to encourage people by showing our love for one another and not by bickering and acting like we are in a playground!
Turn the other cheek and breath in before replying, the internet is a fantastic opportunity for us to share gods love, but also to scare people off.
I actually think this has been an interesting thought-provoking discussion. We're not robots or computers, and our dialog reflects that. Honestly - we can't have always have discussions in a 'sing-song', holding hands way. I also think 'politically correctness' has SO permeated society that people are afraid to stand on their own two feet and have such a robust discussion.
Some folks need to go on medical rounds or go to medical meetings and see what some really robust discussions look like! My goodness, its ok to disagree and to even (gasp) have a little sarcasm and a little give and take.
I think this one (unlike some others) didn't devolve into manipulation or games and I like that.
I believe Karen has come back and stated and clarified her opinions in a professional manner and she has every right to do so, and she has every right to be wrong in terms of her point of view (ok, was kidding on that last one).
Now I want to go back and re-read her last comments - and to Karen, I want to thank her for a balanced, well-thought out discussions without the "hit and run" tactics or some of the other things we have seen occasionally in the comment section.
Karen - thanks again for the clarification. I actually agree more with your last comments than some previous ones.
But to perhaps split hairs here - I believe that even the sin of reprtetive sins which are not accompanied with a spirit of repentance isn't a 'deal-breaker'. Because again, the sin of not recognizing certain sins is still just another sin IMO.
The problem I have with going down that road - even a little - is that is always ends up with arbitrary 'rules and regulations'....For instance, take the sin of not recognizing and acknowledging certain sins (whether the sin is being done unwittingly or on purpose) - how do you define not being repentent?
What if you pray annually about removal of such sin? Is that enough/not enough? What if you pray monthly about certain sins? What if you try "pretty hard" to stop certain sins, but not "really hard"? Is there a difference there?
And any definitions around it inevitably become complicated and convoluted, and the progression is life for jews ~ 30 AD. I don't see any way around that scenario.
Because then, with sin - we need to start slicing and dicing which sins count as repetetive, which sins you are REALLY trying to stop and repent for - then, we need to discuss an appropriate frequency for such sins - and then even categorize sins.
(does 10 adulteries = 25 "mad in traffics"?)
(Am I truly repenting if I pray nightly to stop this particular sin? How do I know if I am really being earnest in such prayers? Am I REALLY trying to stop a certain sin? Maybe there isn't quite enough effort) etc etc etc.
Thats my problem with such a paradygm.
I also believe that God's mercy and grace outweighs ANY sin I am committing - at all times.
Anyway - as stated before - this has been a good discussion - even if way off topic (which I do regret because this original post was so intended to be a message of hope and encouragement and I REALLY wish we could stay on the topics presented)
Oh - almost forgot - you can add sarcasm, impatience, easy frustration to my lengthy list of sins :)
Thank u Scott, for ending on a humorous note!God bless you~~~ :-)
Scott, to think this whole discussion came from looking forward to the rapture. You are truly a man of God, please do not be discouraged by the posts.... brothers and sisters, we ALL have to stand before the Son of Man, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ, the Son of the Most High. This should be a sobering thought only for our conduct, not salvation..The time is short! Look up!
Loving in Christ,
And may I add my appreciation for a well thought through explanation.
It was decidedly NOT what I was expecting. The history of "bait-n-run", "diversions", and "dodge-n-weave" and avoiding addressing the topic is long and extensive....and frankly, what I thought was occurring.
The sad thing is - (and this is by no means directed towards Karen, but a general observation going back years now) - everytime I make a commentary type post - which is always led strongly by the Holy Spirit - I can predict that almost immediately people will come to comments section and attempt to divert, change the message, confuse, cause strife etc...Its unreal but so so predictable. In fact, its probably kept be from doing so to a large degree (which is my fault really, for letting that happen) - Ihave no idea why people feel compellel to come and divert away from a positive, uplifting message. No idea.
Oh - and Thanks Sandra - I appreciate that a great deal :)
Thank u, Caver ~
Glad this all ended on a positive note.
Im looking forward to seeing yous all face to face someday in the presence of our Lord
Christ be with us all
Hi Scott, just a quick one to say I see where you're coming from and it certainly makes sense WRT salvation. It's been a while since I read certain scriptures and it doesn't take long to stray from Christ.
Mrs C, I believe you're a good person and you didn't deserve what I said.
GG, you're right in a way in that I'm looking for truth, but my above posts weren't about me playing the victim, getting attention or any of those unchristian things. I'm not a stirrer, just someone trying to be friends with other Christians.
Anyway, have a great day all and I'll see you all face to face soon.
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