Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Tuesday that sanctions aimed at halting Iran’s nuclear enrichment program have failed to yield results."The sanctions are painful, hard… but will this bring about a halt or a retreat in the Iranian nuclear program? Until now, it has not happened," Netanyahu told reporters in Jerusalem.
He said the Iranian regime is struggling financially, but has strengthened its political hold on power in recent months.
So far, the UN Security Council has imposed four sets of sanctions on Tehran over its nuclear activities, while the US and Europe have also imposed their own raft of unilateral economic sanctions.
However, Israel – which sees a potential Iranian nuclear bomb as an existential threat – has made it clear it will not wait forever and fears Iran’s nuclear program could soon reach “the immunity zone” in which an Israeli attack would prove ineffectual.
Israeli-U.S. Air Naval Forces Train For Energy War
Israeli, Greek and U.S. forces are in the midst of a drill in preparation for a possible war over Israel’s huge off-shore gas discoveries, which also may contain commercializable oil. Lebanon and Hizbullah have claimed the fields are in Lebanese territory and that they will "defend" the area against drilling by Israel.
The week-long drill is simulating air-to-air combat and anti-submarine warfare and is taking place off the coast of Turkey, possibly signaling it not to interfere with Israeli energy operations in the Mediterranean Sea. The “enemy” forces will be similar to those of the Turkish air force, according to the Defencenet.gr website.
Russia is keeping a wary eye on the American-Israeli exercises and is staging its own war drill in a Syrian port, according to DEBKAfile. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov warned this week against a pre-emptive strike, which he said would violate international law.
A Russian guided missile destroyer reportedly sailed to the Syrian port of Tartus for an exercise with what DEBKAfile said is three-fold message for the United States that Moscow is supplying Syrian President Bashar Assad with defense systems, that the Russian and Iranian support of Assad will continue and that the deployment of the warship illustrates Moscow’s ability for a rapid response to foreign maneuvers.
Which leads to the next article:
Russian Warships Launch Drill From Tartus Versus U.S.-Israeli-Greek Naval exercise
On guard at the Russian missile destroyer SmetliviyNot 24 hours after Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov warned that a pre-emptive strike (by the US and/or Israel) would violate international law, Moscow put muscle into his warning: Tuesday, April 3, the Russian guided missile destroyer Smetliviy arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus from its Black Sea base for a naval exercise. The warship’s support group is on the way.
DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the Russian flotilla carried a threefold message for Washington:
1. The Russian-Iranian strategy of propping up the Assad regime which has brought the Syrian ruler close to victory over his foes, will continue: Diplomacy will be propelled by military impetus.
2. Russia is providing the Assad regime with defense systems capable of repelling foreign military intervention.
3. Consigning the Smetliviy warship to Syria illustrates Moscow’s new rapid response policy: Russia is launching a naval exercise in the eastern Mediterranean to match the “Noble Dina”air and naval maneuver the US, Israel and Greece are conducting across a broad expanse of sea between Crete and the Israeli bases at Haifa and Ashdod.
US naval and aircraft but confronted suddenly by one of the largest destroyers in the Russian fleet (NATO-coded ASW-submarine warfare), whose decks are the launching base for anti-air, anti-ship and anti-submarine missiles.
The build-up to war continues in the Middle East.
29 comments:
There doesn't seem to be any doubt that we are now quickly lining up for Ezekiel 38-39 and Isaiah 17/Psalm 83.
The article on Russia Scott was particularly striking. Not much doubt in my mind Putin is Gog.
It just doesn't seem possible that the ME war and global economic meltdown can hold out much longer...but it has seemed that way now for a couple of months and yet the pressure continues to build. I pray the climax comes soon.
Oh Lord Jesus we love you and long to behold you in all your glory!
Maranatha!
Well stated WV...I was thinking of how everything is now being 'positioned' in the Middle East - like the pieces of a chess board (strategically) all are moving to their proper positions on the board...Most notably now, Russia. I was also reading an article last week about hos Russia is starting to move south again as they did a couple of years ago...That corridor into Israel (From the far north) is getting shorter and shorter. Another interesting development IMO
Drill for energy war...
Eze 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
to those who waits for his return
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
mato
Mato,
Scott had previously explained to you, that the Church will not go through the Tribulation, and he explained why, with Scripture. Yet you continue to promote this false teaching? Why insist on untruth?
Mrs C,
where in this post did you see the church in tribulation?
i do agree and believe that God will keep us from the HOUR of trial, and if we then are worthy, we shall escape these things which will shortly come to pass. also God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Dan 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
as no one knows the HOUR of his coming. be ready.
mato
Mato,
You quoted Revelation 14:13 which occurs during the Tribulation, therefore implying that the Church will go through the Tribulation, which is untrue. The Church will not enter the Tribulation. Revelation 14 occurs during the Tribulation. Do you believe in the pre-Trib Rapture?, or as a previous poster that Scott deleted, suggested and was promoting that we already are in the Trib?
mrs c.
if rev 14:13 as you say is in tribulation, the statement itself makes no sense, who will die in the Lord then, who are the saints who will overcome by the beast, are they not part of the Church?
maybe the problem is what is tribulation to you?
earthquake, famine, persecution, death do we not experience all these things, but we are warned of great tribulation to come, great earthquake, great hail, great heat, plagues...at that time God will keep those who are worthy to escape these things that will shortly come to pass to try those who dwell in the earth. the so called rapture then.
pre-trib, mid trib, post trib, pre wrath, post wrath, the important is God will keep those who believes at that Hour of trial.
and those who are not worthy to escape these things will not repent whatever God will do.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
pray that we are worthy to escape those things that will shortly come to pass.
mato
Geepers Mato, I thought the definition of the Trib was pretty much universally agreed.....especially for those that visit here.
When Mr. Fix It confirms a covenant with Israel for 7 years the Trib will have started.
The build up of the "signs" you mentioned are the birth pains, which we are experiencing now.
The Great Trib is the second half of the 7 year period.
The Trib has NOT yet started. The covenant with Israel has NOT been confirmed.
The birth pains are continuing to grow and get shorter in between contractions.
As far as "praying that I am worthy", I don't have to worry about it. Jesus told me exactly and precisely what I had to do be assure my salvation....its in Rom 10:9. I did and I trust Him....His word is good, for all of time.
Mato,
To be very clear Mato, it is not what “I say”, it is what His Word says. If His Word “doesn’t make sense” to you, I Pray that His Holy Spirit will help you with clarity. It is evident that you believe we are already in the Trib, and as said before, Scott had deleted the post of another trying to promote this same untruth. If I recall, you had posted at the same time, the same belief, and Scott took his time to respond to you both in kind, explaining that we are NOT in the Trib. Yet you continue to try to promote this untruth, that is riddled with fear. The Rapture is our Hope, and we Trust in Him, going through the Trib is an untruth sewn by the author of fear, not by God.
Those that “die in the Lord” as you say, are the Tribulations Saints. They are those that have come to accept Jesus as their Savior DURING the Trib, AFTER the Rapture. The acceleration of the natural events you listed, are the ever increasing birth pangs. You are referencing Matthew 24, and without question, Jesus is speaking to the Jewish Believers of the Trib. We the Church, are just observers of these birth pangs, and they tell us as said, that the BEGINNING of the Trib is near. That is why Paul said we the Church, would not be ignorant of these events, as Scott explicitly explained to you before. 2000 years ago, they thought they were in the middle of the Trib, and Paul had to write the Church of Thessalonica to clarify that they weren’t.
The “so called Rapture”, “so called”? That statement implies that perhaps you don’t believe in the Rapture? Again, we are NOT in the Trib, nor approaching the middle of the Trib AT ALL!
You quote Matthew 24 as far as the birth pangs are concerned, but what you left out, was the continuation of what the Lord says! Jesus refers to the second half of the Trib, as the Great Tribulation. He also refers to the Prophet Daniel for understanding.
Matthew 24:15
15.When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Jesus clearly tells us when the middle of the Trib is, and its not now. Jesus is referring to Daniel who clearly tells us when the Trib begins, and that half way through, 3 ½ years the “abomination of desolation” occurs. The very next Verses, again, makes it very very clear, that Jesus is speaking to, and warning Jewish Believers of the Tribulation, NOT the Church.
The middle of the Trib, is NOT here now. There is no ac that has risen up, there is no 7 year covenant that the ac has presented yet (which begins the Trib). There is not a rebuilt Temple, for the ac to commit his “abomination” triggering the second half of the Trib, the Great Trib as Jesus said!
(Continued)
Most importantly of ALL, we DO NOT have to be concerned about whether we are “worthy” as you say. Those that have TRULY accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, are going home in the Rapture, BEFORE the Trib begins. Our Beloved Bride Groom is not coming for a beat up Bride!
I guess it is how you view our Loving Father and Savior Jesus. Do you see Him as pure Judgmental, lightning bolt throwing Father, ready to strike anyone down at any moment? Or do you see Him as a good and Just Loving Father, that corrects His Children on occasion because He wants us to be all that He Created us to be? Out of pure Love He gave us His Son! To allow His Church to go through the Trib, would be against all that He is, all that He has given for us! He gave His only Son, who as it is echoed throughout Heaven, only the Lamb of God is worthy! We could never ever be “worthy” enough by anything we do or say.
God would NOT leave us to work our way through the Trib, guessing as to what amount of “worthiness” we have earned to “escape” the Trib as you say! That is pretty fearful thought, theres no Hope in that, and God is not the author of fear. We as His Church, have only to Trust in Him, Trust His Word! We don’t have to earn anything, nor have to go through the Trib, shedding our blood in the vague hope that maybe He will count us “worthy to escape” as you say.
Jesus already shed His Precious Blood on the Cross for us 2000 years ago! We have His Promises to us, and He Promises He is Coming for His Bride! We the Church are His Bride, and no Groom would allow their Bride to be beaten and bloodied going through the Trib! We are dressed in “fine linen” and will attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb! Praise You and thank You Forever Father, and our Loving Lord Jesus!
Revelation 19:7-9
7.Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8.And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9.And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Mato, one final thought before putting this away for the day and getting down to work.
What do you think "grace" is?
What do you think the "free gift" is?
Romans 10:9 tells you all you need to know. What do you think the term "...that none should boast..." refers to if our salvation depends on works or "most worthy" over and above Romans 10:9?
Caver,
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
7 year tribulation, or covenant confirmation?
in the midst, sacrifice and oblation to cease, or great tribulation to start?
instead of tribulation, expand what is this covenant?
instead of start of great tribulation, what is this sacrifice and oblation that will have to cease?
let me ask you, do you know what the covenant "mr fix it" shall confirmed, and what it is all about?
Peace... there are lots of peace treaty with Israel, which one?
or this;
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
what is the consequence of this, no more sacrifice in the morning and evening for sins, laws in heart not in tablet.
also please consider this.
early believers, today's christian, future converted christians are they all not part/member of the Church? for they are chosen from the beginning to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
be blessed.
mato
Mato,
Mr.C is at work, as he said he was going to do. Interesting how you avoided any of the questions posed to you in this discussion.
This has happened here time and time again. Those wanting to insert their false beliefs, causing strife, fear and confusion among the Brothers and Sisters, consistently begin with statements, questions, and then avoid or refuse answering the questions posed to them. Confusion is not of God. They then ask more questions, without providing answers to the previous questions asked to them. This allows them to promote their false beliefs even further with no accountability for their previous statements. It is one thing that a Brother or Sister in all earnest, wants to study and share Gods Word, and its another that others intentionally try to sew strife.
As stated before, Scott made it very clear to you previously that we are NOT in the middle of the Trib. Yet you appear to continue to promote that we are. Before any more discussion of this with either Mr. C or myself, please address and answer the questions that were posed to you above, by both of us. Example do you even believe in the Rapture? Why do you believe that what Jesus did for all of us on the Cross, was not sufficient enough that His Church would have to suffer through the Trib? Do you believe we are in the middle of the Trib? You have not addressed in full, the responses provided to.
mr and mrs c and caver,
i am not against you guys nor His words.
I do believe that grace is a free gift and that Jesus paid it all.
I do believe we will be "caught" away, this what others called rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive will meet the Lord in the air.
though we suffer some tribulations yet we are not yet at that time of trial.because I do believe God will keep his Church and will escape those things which will cometo pass and to try them that dwell in the earth.
If you then believe that the church will escape those things, how come you also believe that there are some who will be saved during the tribulation "tribulation saints"?
Separating the Church from those who believe during that period. Those believers chosen from the beginning to obtain salvation through Christ.
Please understand, yesterday believers, todays believers and tomorrow's believers are all part of the Church.
We all belong to one Church.
These "tribulation saints" which church are you going to put them?Can you really say that those who believes during that period is not part of the Church?
Again those who will not be able to escape these things will not repent, whatever God will do to them during that period, those who are left will not repent as revelation reveal.
I am not promoting fear but rather comfort that what ever you believe, pre, mid, or post. God will keep those who believes (His Church) and be able to escape the hour of trial.
As long as you are in Christ and Christ in you. No worries.
i hope i answer some of your questions.
In Christ
mato
We're not in the trib right now because things have not yet
happen (getting very close, though) but Bible makes it clear
that His saints are in the Great Tribulation - who else is the
AntiChrist going to make war against? Matt 24 clearly says
the Resurrection-Catching Up (Rapture) is immediately after
the tribulation. He’s going to collect his elect (which are
ONE flock consist of ALL of His people) – the dead first
Resurrection - from the beginning of time up to those who died
In the trib) followed by those who are alive (in the trib) will be
caught up (Rapture) to meet Him in the air. Nowhere in the
Bible does it say that there are going to be 2 catching ups
(Rapture). Btw, this guy does a good explanation of whose
God’s Elect. http://www.tribulationcentral.com/elect.html
Yes, we are protected from God’s wrath but it's Satan's/
AntiChrist wrath against the saints in the Great Trib
(3.5 yrs) not God’s wrath. No, we're not going to be a
broken and bloodied bride presented before Christ but a
tried stone, a precious cornerstone who has been bought by
the Blood of the Lamb. (That's our old earthly bodies anyway.
We're going to have a new body). We shouldn’t focus on
what’s going to happen to our earthly flesh but pray that God
will keep our focus on Him and walk in the Holy Spirit & that
He increases our faith in Him (mighty important) until it can
move mountains. Pray that our eyes, ears, and heart will be
open to hear his clear direction and that we obey it – and that
the Latter day Rain (Holy Ghost) that Joel speaks of in the
end times will rain down on us hard. Yes, God will be moving
and pouring out His Spirit during the Great Tribulation! He will
lead & guide us & be w/us. No need to fear because greater is
He that is in us than He that is in the world. He will be with us
until the end of time,that includes through the great tribulation.
Btw, the restrainer is not the Holy Spirit as people think
for we cannot be saved without the Spirit & there will be trib.
saints being saved –plus God said He will never leave
us or forsake us…why would He suddenly leave us in our
greatest hour of need. Trib. saints have to totally depend
on Him & His Grace. Who authorize us to cut off His grace
before the trib? Magnify Him, let us exalt His Name together!
Don’t make Him so small. Do you want Him to snatch us
away in the sad & broken state the Church is in right now.
Do you really think that will be the time of Harvest?
In our broken state? Talk about broken bride! C’mon. He’s
our Deliverer! Safe in the arms of Jesus, and the world can’t
do us no harm (can take our bodies but not our souls.
God’s seal is on our souls no power can pluck us from His
hands). Anyway, I can go on & on about this but won't...
came across this post while cruising thru the internet about
the last days. Important note is just keep our eyes fixed on
Jesus. He’s our Salvation! In Him we move, live, and have
our being. We MUST have that personal relationship with
Him! Good website: endtimepilgrim.org/posttribrap.htm
Anon please consider the sixteen biblical proofs for a pre-tribulation rapture courtesy of the Rapture Forums.
http://www.raptureforums.com/Rapture/sixteenproofs.cfm
My favorite is there would be no one left to populate the Earthly Millenial kingdom if a post tribulation were true.
Anonymous A & B
By failing to recognise Scriptural distinctions between National Israel, believing Jews, the true Israel and the New Testament Body of Christ who are Jew and Gentile, will result in a false interpretation of prophetic events. The saints/elect are God’s called out ones and the Bible refers to Israel, Jesus, a ‘lady’, believing Gentiles and ANGELS all by this term, not just Christ’s Body/Bride of His ecclesia.
The elect in Revelation are post rapture believing Jews and Gentiles and not the Body of Christ who will be reunited with The Head, Jesus Christ at the Pre-trib Rapture. This serious doctrinal error comes from Covenant Theology’s allegorical interpretation instead of the Biblical method of a literal grammatical, historical hermeneutic. This is the foundational error behind the Post-trib. theory of the rapture.
Covenant Theology’s allegorical interpretation is the root that causes so much confusion and any debate makes no changes to the weedy top growth of this false doctrine.
It is a waste of time and energy when both parties are reasoning using a different hermeneutic.
Post is based on a false premise that Israel is the Church in the Old Testament and the Church is Israel in the New Testament – totally without foundation and devised by Scripture twisting and false application.
Like you, just cruising.
anon,
hear what you are saying, as i understand it pls. forgive me if i understand it differently
"...The new testament body of Christ who are the jew and gentile"
then "the elect in revelation are post rapture believing jews and gentiles and not the body of Christ"
what testament do these post rapture believer falls then?
and if they are not part of the body of Christ, whose part are they.
Gal 3:27-29 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
mato
anon,
hear what you are saying, as i understand it pls. forgive me if i understand it differently
"...The new testament body of Christ who are the jew and gentile"
then "the elect in revelation are post rapture believing jews and gentiles and not the body of Christ"
what testament do these post rapture believer falls then?
and if they are not part of the body of Christ, whose part are they.
Gal 3:27-29 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
mato
Mato,
It appears that you believe we are indeed ALREADY in the middle of the Trib. Yet, as I stated before, the promotion of these kind of ideas, goes on and on. You have been popping in and out of Scotts blog for some time now, and know full well that he, as many others here, believe in the pre-Trib Rapture. You have ignored Scotts Scripture he provided, and statements to yourself, that we are NOT in the middle of the Trib.
You originally quoted Revelation 14:13, implying that we the Church, are in the Trib, also prefacing “to those who wait for His return”. That statement, and your Revelation reference, clearly implies that you believe the Church will go through the Trib. Now, you are apparently trying to back peddle, soften your statement so as to speak, by saying that we will “suffer some tribulations”. Really? Please provide the Scripture that states the Church is “suffering” or even IN the Tribulation.
Yes, I can “really say” that the Tribulation Saints will not be part of the Church, but more importantly, Gods Word says they will not! The Church is NOT appointed to His Wrath, nor the Judgment that is within the Tribulation. Old Testament Believers are not part of the Church, and neither are the Tribulation Believers. When we read Gods Word, He tells us that the destination of the Tribulation Believers is very different than the Church. Revelation 7:9-17, tells us that the Tribulation Believers are serving God in His Temple, which the Church has no assignment to. Nor in these Verses, does God tell us that these Tribulation Believers are also to rule and reign with Jesus, as we know His Word says that the Church will do.
Revelation 7:15
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them
Once the Tribulation begins, Gods awesome power will be seen by all. Those that come to accept Jesus during the Tribulation, will have done so by seeing and faith, just as it was in the Old Testament. Jesus made it very clear, that those have not seen, yet believe are Blessed. The Church has not seen, where as the Tribulation Believers will see Gods Mighty power displayed. By Jesus’ own Words, Believing in what you see, is not as commendable as Believing what is not seen. Ergo, why the Tribulation Believers will play a different role, than the Church who will rule and reign with Jesus.
Forgive me, but you are promoting fear, and confusion for that matter. We are not in the middle of the Trib. Continually you are implying that the Church will suffer through the Tribulation, which is untrue, and fearful for those who are young in their Faith. There is no “comfort” in that, only dread of whats to come.
Yourself and the “anon” may think this funny, to “cruise the Internet”, and making drive by posts, but it is not. As said, there are those that are babes in their Faith, and while you apparently believe this is some kind of game perhaps, you are sewing confusion in these young babes faith.
Yes indeed, God will not allow His Church to enter into the Tribulation. His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus, already paid that price for us thousands of years ago…
Anon here (Elizabeth). Wow, what made you think I was being funny? I was so very serious. And I have no intentions to promote fear – it’s the opposite. So many Christians are just focus on Satan’s wrath and not what God’s mighty power is going to do during this time. Remember it’s going to be a Great and Terrible Day. Except for David Wilkerson, John Siefker, and Gavin Finley, I don’t know why no one ever mentions the End-Time Revival – Latter Day Rain (outpouring of Holy Ghost as never before and never again shall be) Joel 2:1-11. That time is going to be a glorious time w/all God’s Kingdom-minded saints full of His Spirit wrecking havoc on the world doing what God directs them to do – never looking back & not worrying one bit about their fleshly bodies because by that time we will be full of His Spirit and very little flesh – which is exactly opposite of what most Christians are to today – 98% flesh and little to no Spirit. The Holy Ghost we have in us today is just a little bit compare to what God is going to pour out in the last days – to anyone that will accept Him – from the highways and byways (sadly, there will also be a great many who won’t accept Him– the Great Falling Away). Every tongue, nation, and tribe (all people including Judah or Jews – not to mention the other lost tribes of Israel that will be restored) will come to Him in multitudes. We will finally know TRUTH & it will really set us free! We will have TRUE deliverance from our sins as God will bring us to TRUE repentance. As a song goes We Shall Be Like Him! Now, to me that’s very encouraging! For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Eph 6:12
About God’s elect in the tribulation being saved only by believing what they see as they did in the Old Testament makes no sense. That was for Old Testament saints before Jesus died on the cross & before the promise of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Himself makes it clear that you can now only be saved (born again) thru the Spirit. John 3:5
Jesus died on the cross to make these two groups (Jews and Gentiles) as one.We are grafted into the vine. The veil has been broken! And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (Eph2:16). Eph 2:11-19 says more. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal. 3:26-29, 4:28 tells a great deal more about this.
Are you saying that God is going to “ungraft”, as you will, these two groups making them separate again? Undoing what He did on the cross when He made them one?
Elizabeth you are believing the wicked and fraudulents teaching of the 'Manifest Son's of God' - the 'Kansas Street 'prophets'- the infamous 'Joel's army' that has the church like the army of locust! Trouble is, that army of 'locusts' are vile demons let out of the pit with the revived Abaddon/the Antichrist just before the middle of the 7 years. That very same army - GOD will destroy and their stink will be terrible. This is GODS word NOT the vain lies of devious men who speak from their own vile hearts and minds.
YOU my friend have been led astray by the false prophets of the infamous and immaginary 'Joel's Army'. I promise you Gods TRUTH is far, far, superior and you really need to wake up to being led astray by the rabid wolves in sheep's clothing.
There is NO end time revival predicted - exactly the opposite - a great falling that has begun and will be far worse after the Rapture of the INVISIBLE true Church of Jesus Christ. Right now Elizabeth, you are part of the end time Apostasy and promoting a false prophecy - you desperately need Repentance, forgiveness and cleansing by returning to GODS truth and ditch the false teachings of deceivers and liars like Wagner, Warren and Joyner - not forgetting Hybels.... GET OUT NOW Elizabeth. Jesus is waiting for you!
Geepers, Mrs C said it so well, how much clearer can it be....
1. The Jews are not the Church or vise versa, nor is the Church and the Trib Saints the same.
2. The Trib Saints believed after seeing...They will serve Him in His temple (Rev 7:15)
3. The Church believed without seeing....They will rule and reign with Christ...they are Blessed
4. The Church may suffer the wrath of our fellow man, but not the Wrath of God.
5. The Trib Saints will suffer both the cruelty and retribution of man and during the time of the Wrath of God.
If you are on the fence...have not yet made a commitment....NOW is the time...not later...there is a huge difference in your eternity based on when you accept the free gift of salvation.
mrs. c
regarding tribulations here what the bible says...
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
though we endure tribulations and persecutions during our lifetime, we on the other hand is not yet at that time of trouble/trial to try them that dwell on the earth...
i am amaze that you did really say that those "tribulation saints" are not part of the Church...this is very dangerous...
this is the basic of Jesus teaching, for He (Jesus Christ) is the only way.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Jesus gave himself for the Church and if you will continue reading this chapter...
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
If Jesus gave himself for the Church, and your "tribulation saints" are not part of the church as you say they are not, who then saves them or who will give his life for them?
please have a look back at the parable of the "ten virgins" in mat 25.
Be blessed.
Mato
mrs. c
regarding tribulations here what the bible says...
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
though we endure tribulations and persecutions during our lifetime, we on the other hand is not yet at that time of trouble/trial to try them that dwell on the earth...
i am amaze that you did really say that those "tribulation saints" are not part of the Church...this is very dangerous...
this is the basic of Jesus teaching, for He (Jesus Christ) is the only way.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Jesus gave himself for the Church and if you will continue reading this chapter...
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
If Jesus gave himself for the Church, and your "tribulation saints" are not part of the church as you say they are not, who then saves them or who will give his life for them?
please have a look back at the parable of the "ten virgins" in mat 25.
Be blessed.
Mato
Mato,
This is EXACTLY what I was saying before. This goes on and on, and is so typical of those trying to promote their own false beliefs.
I can see why your believing that the Truth of the Church NOT being the same as the Tribulation Saints is “dangerous” as you say, as you clearly and falsely believe you will be one of those Tribulation Saints.
It is not what I say, it is what His Word says, and you were provided the Scripture that clearly states what the Tribulation Saints positions will be, and how God views them as different from the Church. Yet you ignore the Scripture presented and continue without commenting on them, just as you did with Scott.
The Church will rule and reign with Jesus, Gods Word says the Tribulation Saints wont. Doesn’t that tell you something? The Church Believed without seeing, and the Tribulation Saints will have to see for their Faith. Jesus said specifically, that those that Believe without seeing are Blessed. Therefore God has assigned a different position for the Tribulation Saints, than the Church. They are different in His Eyes, period. Dont know how His Word can make it any clearer.
All Believers or “churches” are not the same in His Eyes, as Jesus clearly points out when He reviews the Churches in Revelation 3. It is obvious that you are not interested in truly discussing Gods Word, as you don’t respond to Scriptures presented to you. Ask questions, but don’t respond or discuss the Scriptural answers provided. It is an obvious tactic to drag on the “discussion” (if you could even call it that), just so that you can promote your false beliefs. You are harming those that are young in their Faith, and those that have not yet decided to accept Jesus, by sewing confusion and fear with your double talk – quoting Scriptures incorrectly sited and suggesting as the Church being part of the Trib, and at the same time saying we wont.
Nuff said...done with this apparent game...
Mato,
This is EXACTLY what I was saying before. This goes on and on, and is so typical of those trying to promote their own false beliefs.
I can see why your believing that the Truth of the Church NOT being the same as the Tribulation Saints is “dangerous” as you say, as you clearly and falsely believe you will be one of those Tribulation Saints.
It is not what I say, it is what His Word says, and you were provided the Scripture that clearly states what the Tribulation Saints positions will be, and how God views them as different from the Church. Yet you ignore the Scripture presented and continue without commenting on them, just as you did with Scott.
The Church will rule and reign with Jesus, Gods Word says the Tribulation Saints wont. Doesn’t that tell you something? The Church Believed without seeing, and the Tribulation Saints will have to see for their Faith. Jesus said specifically, that those that Believe without seeing are Blessed. Therefore God has assigned a different position for the Tribulation Saints, than the Church. They are different in His Eyes, period. Dont know how His Word can make it any clearer.
All Believers or “churches” are not the same in His Eyes, as Jesus clearly points out when He reviews the Churches in Revelation 3. It is obvious that you are not interested in truly discussing Gods Word, as you don’t respond to Scriptures presented to you. Ask questions, but don’t respond or discuss the Scriptural answers provided. It is an obvious tactic to drag on the “discussion” (if you could even call it that), just so that you can promote your false beliefs. You are harming those that are young in their Faith, and those that have not yet decided to accept Jesus, by sewing confusion and fear with your double talk – quoting Scriptures incorrectly sited and suggesting as the Church being part of the Trib, and at the same time saying we wont.
Nuff said...done with this apparent game...
mrs c,
i will comment on rev 7.
1. may i call those saints clothed in white robes "great tribulation saints" rather than just "tribulation saints" so as not to sway away in biblical truth.
2. in the new jerusalem there is no temple there.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
3. no need of sun "day" nor moon "night"
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
4. not temple of jews.
and if you consider this temple to be the third temple of the jew, service there is offering animal sacrifice, which Christ already done away with.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Is it reasonable or biblical to say then that serving him day and night in his temple, is by presenting your bodies as a living sacrifice.
Can we do this today and the days to come?Yes.
Rom 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I hope these will clear it.
In Christ.
mato
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