Israeli Foreign Minister A. Lieberman, has now made what is an obvious response to a previous written statement by Catherine Ashton Ashton in bid to save Middle East peace process, where she stated the following:
"The EU official in a letter over the weekend said the Quartet - the EU, Russia, the UN and the US - should hold a high-level meeting before the summer which spells out that Israel must pull back to its 1967 borders in return for security guarantees from the Palestinian side."
Now Mr Lieberman weighs in, after already having made this statement earlier in the week:
For his part, Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman on Tuesday called the Ashton plan "naive", saying she should concentrate on bigger events unfolding in Iran, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria and Yemen instead.
"This is an attempt to distort the international community's correct set of priorities," he told Israel's Army Radio. "The attempt to give top priority to the Palestinian issue is naive."
Now this:
'Palestinian state declaration means the end of talks'
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in a meeting with his EU counterpart Catherine Ashton on Friday that if the Palestinians unilaterally declare statehood, it will bring an end to the Oslo Accords."
A move like that will be a violation of all the agreements that were signed until today," Lieberman said. "Israel will no longer be committed to the agreements signed with the Palestinians in the past 18 years.
"He added: "In light of [PA President Mahmoud] Abbas's current stance, the chances for negotiations are zero."
"Abbas is not interested in an agreement," the foreign minister explained. "He wants conflict, because that is his personal interest, even though it is against the Palestinians' interest, and many oppose him."
Ashton arrived in Israel on Friday after visiting Jordan.
According to her spokesman, Ashton came to Israel to urge all sides to return to the negotiating table.
In an official statement, the spokesman said, "We are well aware that September is fast approaching. With the events of the Arab Spring and following President Obama's speech, it is more urgent than ever to engage in meaningful negotiations and move the Peace Process forward."
Point-counterpoint.
As we approach September - which is the known deadline for the UN to vote on "Palestinian" statehood, independent from any negotiations with Israel, we are now seeing the positioning and the posturing from various world leaders.
This process will be fascinating to watch, and we are a mere 3 months away from this critical deadline.
77 comments:
Scott:
Great posts today as always. Lieberman is exactly right. It's astonishing to watch the level of deception coming from the EU about Israel. It's naive to think that Israel can be threatened (by a declaration of palestinian statehood) in to negotiating the 1967 borders. Honestly when I think of God watching all of this I think how I would handle it and I wonder why He hasn't acted yet. In His infinite wisdom and in His times, and not my inferior benign thought process I am hopeful that His reaction will come soon.
God bless you brother!
James Dickens in Nashville
I'm afraid it's looking like the US is going to be on the wrong side of this conflict, essentially abandoning its ties with Israel.
I get the sense that big things, including the peaceful Palestinian statehood agreement, will transpire well before September. Yesiree, things are on the fast track. ; )
What I'm about to say Is equivelent to saying the sky is blue or grass is green but here it is: if they declare a palestinian state and israel excepts it's gonna end up in war, they declare a palestinian state and israel does not accept it's going to end up in war, if they declare a palestinian state but someone vetoes it, it's gonna end up in war but if they don't declare palestinian state but if they don't declare palestinian state.... it's going to end up in war. Does that sum it up?
Scott, a friend just sent me this link from Walid Shoebat's site. Apparently there is good reason the MSM is using Weiner as a huge distraction...
Weiner's In-Laws and the SECRET Muslim Brotherhood Connections REVEALED:
http://www.shoebat.com/documents/secretConnections.htm
(sorry, still haven't practiced the linky thing...) ;)
Just FYI, there are some who don't believe Shoebat is telling the truth (applies also to Ergun Caner):
Shoebat
Caner
I'm hoping that instead of dismissing the sources that everyone will do their own investigation by searching the internet and looking at both sides. We live in a time of great deception and have to be careful.
I am sure you guys heard about the Magnitude 5.2 Earthquake in Alaska. I peek at the earthquake montior daily. Its fasinating to see how many there are. They seem to be getting stronger as well, in places that normally are not.
Interesting to me as a watcher.
God Bless all! Have a wonderful and blessed weekend. Stay in Christ, share the gospel with someone!
Paula, I have read these criticisms of both Shoebat and Caner in the past. Frankly, I don't know what to believe about them. Both have been guests on John Ankerberg's show--not that that makes them legit, just may demonstrate how many people may be misled. :(
You are right, these times are full of great deception...
In any case, I thought the article about Weiner's wife's parents quite interesting, given her VERY close connection to Hillary.
Anon, thank you for the earthquake update--I had not heard about that one. Amazing! And you have a wonderful, blessed weekend, too!
Good news and bad news:
The good news is that I finally got my jee-male and b_logger ID restored soz I can access it again [after over a month].
The bad news is that I had to capitulate and give them 1 of my other alternate emell accounts.
As I mentioned on another site: "They have been pestering me for the past 2months about "if you lose your account we need a mobile # or an alt email to send you a password reset", and I have been ignoring them and blowing past that page. I don't want the mobile service and they don't need to link any other accounts that I may or may not have."
"...and right after I sent the eemell 2 EI "they" had been making me put my password in a 2nd time like clock-work 4 no good reason [I wunder if they didn't like what I sent, my concern about da BadO pretenderdude pulling the plug on the net]."
"...and "they" won't let me sign back in without giving them a phone# or an alternate email account, saying "there's been some 'suspicious' activity on your account lately".
Beeg_bro-bah-humbug!"
EI, I finally got to see yer email from a month ago - will respond a little later.
;)
Dear Scott >>>
Wall street bulls are still playing
games......stocks are up this week.
But I do believe a CRASH is VERY
CLOSE.....take a look at GOOG...
almost back to June 2010 lows.
I can't understand WHY bulls continue to play financial markets.
Real bulls do not do that, they graze and produce baby cows...
in pastures of grass !!!!
This is WHY we will crash, and
well before SEP 2011.
I still believe that a Greek
crisis is VERY CLOSE, and the
VERY THREAT of the EU falling
apart will give rise to AC.
Mr. Amrani is taking over the UFM
in a few weeks....Sarkosky and
Amrani need to be watched very
closely once Greece caves in...
Stephen in Hawaii !!!!
Its amazing to watch all this. We know from Gods Word, that the West Bank will be taken down.
Isaiah 17:3
3.The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.
The land of the tribe of Ephraim sits in the middle of the "West Bank".
It could go either way as far as thats concerned. It could end up being a small part of the severe suffering coming to Israel, if they, in the fog of war, fire on their own that are in the West Bank. Or Israel could pull out of the West Bank. Either by accident, or they are forced to. Again either way the West Bank is going down. We also know from Gods Word, that great Judgment is coming to the nations surrounding Israel.
Ezekiel 25 – Jordan, Gaza
Ezekiel 26 – 28 Lebanon
Ezekiel 29 – 32 Egypt
God personally will see to it. Gaza is included in that Judgment, and it isnt pretty.
Ezekiel 25:15-17
15.Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the Philistines have dealt by revenge, and have taken vengeance with a despiteful heart, to destroy it for the old hatred;
16.Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will stretch out mine hand upon the Philistines, and I will cut off the Cherethims, and destroy the remnant of the sea coast.
17.And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.
What will happen to Lebanon is even worse!
What ever the PA does, the EU does, it will all be in vain. God has other plans for this recycled evil surrounding Israel, and its total destruction...
James - thanks, and as you know, God will have his day - and when He does - they all better watch out because it will be dramatic and relentless.
geared - I agree - I think big things will happen as we approach Sept - at least of the the tipping points that we watch will break
Hart - that sums it up perfectly
Alice - I can't wait to see that link - looks very interesting indeed
Anon- I keep intending to post on quakes - but always get distracted by the other news...There was another quake this morning (Ethiopia?) where it isn't very common.
DrNo - what do you think of the whole "cloud" thing? Do you go to infowars? They have been all over that.
Stephen - I agree about the EU/Greece and the crisis there...It will have MUCH wider implications that most folks recognize, and it is coming to a head very soon.
Mrs C --- You are exactly right about Gaza and W Bank, and don't forget about Tyre and Sidon (as you mentionedre Lebanon...I think all of this serves as the lead-in to Gog-MaGog, in fact this could all end up being a proxy war that Iran wages from 'behind the scenes' (maybe to soften Israel up for the 'big' invasion to come later? ) - just food for thought.
Do you see Jordan involved in this?
My two cents on cloud computing:
The internet is a giant "cloud". Every website is in a "cloud" because it lives on a server that isn't in your house, and your data is flying all over the world with every keystroke. Your bank sends data over the internet; most businesses have an internet presence; the government keeps your files electronically and you know they're sending it here and there. If you exist in the civilized world instead of hiding on some desert isle, you're a "cloud" dweller to one degree or another.
It really has come down to either plugged in or not, living in the modern world or not. Keeping one toe in the cloud is about the same as keeping your whole self there, as far as I understand it. And even if you personally aren't there at all, chances are that a relative or friend has you "tagged" in Facebook, your phone is tracking you, or your car, etc. I think it's all or nothing.
But! I do think that since Big Brother relies on electricity and internet connections and phone signals to spy on us, this means they will protect our electrical grid. Something to consider.
Oh my goodness, yes Scott, Lebanon's Judgment from God is devastating.
Wow! God tells the prince of Tyrus that he recognizes him, the same evil that was in the Garden of Eden. Then this Judgment against Lebanon:
19For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;
Ezekiel 26:20-21
20.When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;
21.I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.
WOW! Covered in water, "never found again". Yike! But God even brought "strangers" among them to destroy them! Gods description sounds just like Hezbollah!
Ezekiel 28:7-8
7.Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8.They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
As for Jordan, yes Scott, Jordan will be toast. Amazingly, He tells us that Israel will reclaim part of Jordan, and as we know, its Jordan that the Jewish Beleivers flee to in Revelation. In addition, the AC cannot enter there as God protects them. Isaiah 17:2 He tells us of the future of Jordan:
Isaiah 17:2
2.The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
“The cities of Aroer are forsaken “ they are gone.
The "flocks that will lie down " in safety - with Damascus, Amman, the PA, and surrounding enemy nations gone, they, "the flocks" - the Israeli's, will feel "safe", in their reclaimed ancient land once more."none shall make them afraid", because they're gone! (Aroer is a region on the northern bank of the Arnon River in what is today Jordan. In Moses day, it marked the southern boundary of the territory given to the two and a half tribes who received their land inheritance on the east side of the Jordan River. Aroer was in the territory of Reuben. There was another Aroer in the territory of Gad, near Rabbah. Rabbah is today called Amman, capital of Jordan.)
Here is a summary of the events. :)
Isaiah 17:
Israel will have fought a war involving multiple fronts.
Isaiah 17:1 - Damascus
Isaiah 17:2 - Jordan
Isaiah 17:3 - West Bank
Isaiah 17:4-11 - Israel suffers greatly, barely survives, and God tells us why He allows this to happen to them
Isaiah 17:12-13 The enemy nations surrounding Israel- attempt to "rush in" to finish her off. This is when God does intercede, at the end. He rebukes these nations, so as His people will not be wiped out, and the people of these nations "flee a far off". Isaiah 17:14 - Gods Word tells us that Damascus, will be gone in a day.
Israel will have fought this Isaiah 17 war, completely alone. They will barely survive, have exhausted all of their weapons and no way to resupply, and the "world" will hate them even more than they do now. Israel will no longer have to worry about the enemy nations that surrounded her, but they pay a very heavy price for this. Israel is severely wounded, and defenseless. This sets the stage for the Ezekiel 38 invasion. Israel will be in a primitive state, and so will the invading Ezekiel forces. At the same time, we have to consider the fulfillment of the Judgment that comes against the nations surrounding Israel. God had Ezekiel devote 8 Chapters in the Book of Ezekiel, to the destruction of these surrounding nations. Ezekiel 25-32
Ezekiel 25 – Jordan, Gaza
Ezekiel 26 – 28 Lebanon
Ezekiel 29 – 32 Egypt
I am convicted that these coming Judgments against these evil surrounding nations, are the fulfillment of God when he "Rebukes" the nations that rush in to finish off Israel in Isaiah 17:12-13.
As for Iran, He tells us that something will happen to Iran to diminish them in power. God lists Iran with all the other Gog tagalongs. Iran is week by Ezekiel 38, and merely a follower, not a leader.
Please forgive that this was so long...very exciting what God is doing! God Bless!
I would like to hear a lot more from Mrs. Caver! Please! :) Why do you think the Lord will tarry? And do you see us at the very brink before he shouts? How rough do you think it will get before he calls? I know you have to be very careful with what you say for a variety of reasons but you really seem to have hs insight and back it up with serious verse n chapter. Thanks!
Mrs.C....
Thank you so much for your great wisdom and insight. I feel very blessed to learn this breakdown from you through this forum. It is greatly appreciated on this end.
Paula - Your post made me laugh with that statement about one toe in the cloud. All I could envision is that is kind of how most humans live - 1/2 in and 1/2 out of something - ha ha .
Have a great Father's Day weekend all.
GG
GG, glad to brighten your day. And I share your appreciation of Mrs. C's writings.
But you know, there's another "cloud" we'd all really love to get into!
Hey everyone... Update on mom's situation She appears to be improving And is doing physical therapy. My understanding Is that they don't do physical therapy Unless there is a good chance she can pull through. The hard thing is this People can seem to improve in these near death situations then suddenly passed away. I don't know what the actual case is but please be praying... I'm praying god will give us a few more years with her then take us all home.
Hi Anon :)
Thank you for your kind words, but all credit is to the His Holy Spirit. :) The events to come are all orchestrated by Him. It is His timing, for His Purpose. All we have to do is see and hear whats happening, Israel is the key and always has been. The events will occur when He decides its time. What we are Witnessing right now, it the build up so as to speak, to the fulfillment of these Prophecies, and the build up itself is fulfilling Prophecy. We are so very Blessed to Witness all of this! Gods Word is so True!
The Rapture is imminent, and we dont know the time, but He said we would know the season. We have to see this from Gods Perspective and His Purpose. Isaiah 17 is God beginning to turn His focus away from the Church, and back to His People. As we all know, He brings us to the end of ourselves in order for us to come to Him. Isaiah 17 is the beginning of that process for Israel.
Isaiah 17 will quickly bring on the Ezekiel 38-39 war/invasion. This war will be God fully returning His attention to His First Born, and restoring His Covenant with them, with the Trib close to follow.
By the end of Ezekiel 38-39, the Church will be gone, as the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive to Him.
If we are still here to Witness Isaiah 17, yes indeed it will be rough. Again, in Isaiah 17, God has not fully turned His attention back to Israe, so there is the possibility we may be here to Witness that event. There are many nations involved, and much death and destruction. Israel will be severely wounded.
For us, as a Witness for Jesus, for His Word, it will be a powerful Witness. But understand, it will not be easy by any means. For example Gods Word tells us that Damascus will be gone in one day.
Isaiah 17:14
14 And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.
Thats a population of a million people,gone, and thats not including all the other nations involved in this war.
The world will not understand our Witness for this event. The world will be very much effected by this. The economy for example will most likely be in shambles.
We need to keep LOOKIN UP! Our redemption is drawing neigh! :)
Hi GG & Paula :) Thank you so much, but all credit is to His Holly Spirit :)The Blessing and privilege is truly mine. Studying His Word together is a Blessing for us all :)
Hartdawg, know that we are lifting your Mother, yourself and your family up in Prayer to Him...
God Bless!
Mrs. C, your opinions are greatly appreciated by me
And hartdawg, I'll be praying for your mother.
Chuckling.....sitting here in the early morning light and reading this. Now I understand why I don't remember my better half climbing into bed last night..... :)
You guys had her on a roll.
As you can imagine, there are some pretty interesting conversations around the Caver household once in a while. :)
Hartdawg...
Many prayers for you and your family. I am glad that for now there is stabilization taking place so you all can be together in love. May she continue to grow stronger everyday.
God Bless!!
GG
I have a question that I have pondered for 'the ages" :)
(First of all - Hart - so glad to hear that great news! Of course, we'll continue to pray for that situation...)
Oh, and Paula, the "hiding in the desert isle" thing actually sounds pretty good to me right now - LOL :)
Question:
What are the conditions in which Jordan allows Israeli's entrance into Petra? OR - is it not really "allowed" but the Israeli people just go there rapidly before Jordan can do anything about it?
What do you guys see as the 'set up' for Israel's access to Petra?
OH - and of course, Mrs C your comments are greatly appreciated :)
Morning Scott :) Please forgive for repeating myself as I touched on this a few posts up from this.:)
I have to make this clear, as there is so much false teachings out there. Having said that, the only, and I mean ONLY land that Gods Word tells us that He will restore to Israel relating to the Isaiah 17 war, is in Jordan :)
Gods Word tells us in Isaiah 17:2
Isaiah 17:2
2.The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
“The cities of Aroer are forsaken “ they are gone.
The "flocks that will lie down " in safety - with Damascus, Amman, the PA, and surrounding enemy nations gone, they, "the flocks" - the Israeli's, will feel "safe", in their reclaimed ancient land once more."none shall make them afraid", because they're gone! (Aroer is a region on the northern bank of the Arnon River in what is today Jordan. In Moses day, it marked the southern boundary of the territory given to the two and a half tribes who received their land inheritance on the east side of the Jordan River. Aroer was in the territory of Reuben. There was another Aroer in the territory of Gad, near Rabbah. Rabbah is today called Amman, capital of Jordan.)
Daniel 11:41 Jordan will be one of the only places that elude the Anti-Christ’s control during the Trib.
Daniel 11:41
41. He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Rev. 12:14 which says that the woman, who represents the Believing Remnant of Israel, will flee into the desert to a place prepared for them during the Trib. The closest desert hiding place is Petra.
Revelation 12:14
14. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Isaiah 63:1 where the Lord is shown coming from Bozrah, the region where Petra is located, having defeated His enemies there. Many scholars believe that He will do this just prior to arriving in Jerusalem at the 2nd Coming, to protect the Believing Remnant.
Isaiah 63:1
1. Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
This is one of the most beautiful pictures of our Lord to come. I wept at the beauty of it. Jesus, Yeshua of Savior, our Hero, coming to save the Remnant of Believing Jews. And they shall greet Him by saying what Jews have said for centuries, Psalm 118:26
26.Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
When Jesus was here on earth, He Himself told the Jews of that time, how the Believing Remnant of Jews will great Him when He returns...
Luke 13:35
35.Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Matthew 23:39
39.For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Amazing...awesome...Glory! Glory! Glory! to God in the Highest!
God Bless!
MRS C
So are you saying that because the region around Petra will be destroyed in war - and then reclaimed by Israel, and based on that, the Israelites fleeing into Petra will be land that they have anyway, so there aren't any political obstacles to overcome, thus making their entry into Petra relatively easy (well, easy in terms of political implications) ?
I was thinking more in terms of the political implications, but that may be answered by the above (?)
Yes :) God clearly tells us that the "flocks", Israel, shall settle with out fear in Jordan.
These Remnant Jewish Believers will be fleeing for their lives, as Jesus tells them in Matt.24, they better make a fast exit. Just as Jesus told us that he prepares a place for us, God has prepared a place of safety for the Believing Jews. He will provide and take care of them for 3 1/2 years, wich is the final Great Tribulation.
God tells us in His Word, that the AC tries to go after the fleeing woman (Remnant Jewish Believers) but God stops him in his tracks with the earth opening up and swallowing the flood. Frustrated, the AC then went back to attack, make war, with the remaining Jews, the "remnant of her seed".
Revelation 12:15-17
15. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16.And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17.And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Gods Word does not tell us that the "woman" needed or sought permission to enter the sanctuary He established for them. No permission from a King, any kind of leader, to enter. :)
Good points and excellent study. That clarifies a lot for me. I had always wondered in the geo-political world how they would gain access to Petra (which, BTW, is the one place on the globe outside of Israel that I'd REALLy like to visit)...This makes a lot of sense.
Many thanks !
Your very welcome Scott, it is my privilege :) Well the really good thing is that WE WONT BE HERE TO SEE IT! lol But seriously, Ive always had a fascination about Petra. Its an amazing place from what Ive seen and read about it. We have a picture of the "treasury" building on the wall in our office, that I purchased from Zola Levitt Ministries many years ago. :) Its such a joy for all of us to study and share His Word together!
Mrs. C:
I have really enjoyed your comments this morning. It's clear how much you love the Lord and He has given you insight to witness to us here. Praise God!
Please update us as you see possible events unfolding.
Scott:
I to would like to visit Petra and Israel. Maybe we and others here on the blog should plan a group trip. Wouldn't that be awesome! Having read Mrs C's comments today,she should definitely be a part of the group.
Hart:
Lifting your mother and your family up right now. God bless you my friend!
First off Thank you all for your prayers Please continue to do so. I live in washington but my family lives in alaska so unfortunately I hear all this over the phone but I was able to fly up and see her.
Concerning petra, since petra is in jordan it becomes israeli territory in the psalms 83 war. so petra will be under israeli territory when they flee...its as Mrs c said. Additionally in the battle of ezekiele 38 when the enemy falls on the mountains of israel the weapons for feul will also be in petra so they can continue to burn them during the second half of the tribulation. does that also answer your question scott? that's how I see it
Scott, Mrs. C,
I fully agree wif yer assessment that Petra will belong to Israel after the P83 war, exhausted, but wealthy with all the Arab oil that rightfully belongs to them ... I type slow so I'll just do a repost from "here"...
"...I had a thot last nite [ it's been a while so, yeah, it hurt...]. An epiphany, maybe...
I wuz thinking about the Iranian "war ship" going thru the Suez and it suddenly occurred to me that after the Ps.83 war, if Israel regains all of the Abrahamic land:
Genesis 15:18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"
The Suez will belong to Israel and that may be one of the 'bargaining chips' that ol'AC might include in his covenant; unfettered access thru it for his kingdom as well as contracting for continued oil and gas to the EU...
Wot think ye??..."
I think that world will be afraid of Israel, not knowing if they have any nukes left in their arsenal, and Israel will have a brief period of peace and wealth before Russia decides they don't like the competition for the EU gas & oil market, and goes E38 on them.
;)
Thank you James! all credit is to the Holy Spirit! :) We can see on a daily basis, Gods Word being fulfilled on a daily basis! Exciting a Blessed times we live in! :)
God Bless!
Yes, the Gog forces will be destroyed in the mountains surrounding Israel, but Gods Word tells us that the weapons will also be retrieved from those mountains, from the dead - by the Israeli citizens themselves, not Petra.
Ezekiel 39:9
9.And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10.So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 38-39 occurs right on the cusp of the beginning of the Trib. He tells us that His People will burn them for seven years, not the "second half" of the Trib.
Hi Hart :) I have to respectfully disagree :) Gods Word says nothing of Jordan being obtained by Israel in Psalm 83, and Psalm 83 says nothing about a war. There is described planning and sceeming against Israel, but no war. If there was a war, God would say it, and He doesnt.
Psalm 83 is a Prayer, and Isaiah 17 is Gods answer to that Prayer.:)
The Prayer
Psalm 83:13
13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
The Prayer Answered
Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
God says that Jordan will be restored to Israel in Isaiah 17, and only Jordan. :)
God Bless!
Hart might be doing what I sometimes do - which is to just use Psa 83 to describe the alliances that will do battle with Israel - like a form of shorthand -- I agree that it is a prayer (petitioning God to 'make god' on the Genesis 12:3 promise) -and I agree that Isa 17 is the 'answer'..
Also of interest - as far as the burning of the weapons - is something Grant Jeffrey has written about and it is the use of a certain type of a cured wood based product that is used in a lot of Russian weapons. I can;t recall the name of this material...But according to G.J. - because of its chemical nature it would burn very slowly for a long time....He questions if this might be the material that is burned...
If anyone is interested, I can find it in one of his books and reference.
here is a reference:
Lignostone and an section from this excellent review of Gog-MaGog
"In my research, I have found that some new Russian weapons have been produced. These weapons are manufactured using a new material known as lignostone. Prepared from compressed wood-product, this material was developed in Holland to be used as fuel. However, the Soviet weapons laboratories discovered that this unique substance, called lignostone, is as strong as steel, light, pliable, and almost invisible to radar. These unique characteristics encouraged the Russian military to utilize this material in many military vehicles and weapons. One of the characteristics of lignostone is that it burns at very high temperatures and can be readily used as an alternative fuel. The use of lignostone, and the fact that mobile Russian military units can carry large amounts of fuel (in containers 100 yards across) for their tanks and helicopters, may explain the prophecy that the defeat of this army will provide ample fuel for Israel for a period of seven years."
Pretty interesting IMO
Hi Dr No!:) I hear many folk speak of the war of Psalm 83. For the life of me, I find no war in Psalm 83....only a prayer of what they want. Isiah 17 appears the exact and precise answer to that prayer.
Now look at what me lovely Wiff...just posted in Ezekiel 39:9-10, Israel will no longer have to gather and burn wood, they can burn the weapons of war. That means they were gathering and burning wood....Now, in this day and time, who does that? Rich and prosperous peoples or poor people, 3rd world countries?
No, I see lots in books written by men selling books claiming riches and expansion for Israel. Problem is, I don't find it in scripture. In fact, I find just exactly the opposite....a land and people that just barely survived the Isiah 17 war (answer to Psalm 83 prayer).
Israel just barely survives and will be in a primitive state, as will be the invading forces.
God identifies many times when Israel prospers and becomes wealthy....He does not here. He knows the names of these lands, He mentions them many times, but He doesn't here. No, all words are to the opposite end.
And, don't forget God's main purpose here....to grant them riches, lands, and power would defeat His stated purpose....to leave His people with no option but to turn back to Him.
The invading forces are going to be on foot, chariots, and horses. These are not metaphors...its literal. Three separate times in three places the Bible references the birds eating of this feast. Birds do not eat metal. They will eat flesh, they will eat blood soaked fabric, and sometimes even blood soaked wood.....not metal.
This is when God fully and completely turns His Holy face back to His people.
Good morning Mrs C.... Isaiah 17 not the only answer to the petition. Zepheniah 2, Zachariah 12 And some other passages Also described The judgment of israels surrounding nations Of which jordan is 1 of them. At least that's my understanding of the passage. Are great resource to read Is isrealstine by bill salus. I don't agree with all of his positions but it is a scholarly work. once again thanks for the prayers. I just found out my mom is malnourished complicated by blood clots. so now you know how to pray. god bless and have a wonderful day
Hi Hartdawg, thanks for the update on your mom. Its tough when they get older, and tougher yet when the distance is great. Rest assured Mrs. C and I will be lifting her up in prayer.
As for the Salus Irealstine.....afraid not. Neither of us will go near that book....and certainly not reference it. Way too many places he implies things according to scripture that just aren't. No, the actual Bible and a dash of commentary from a choice few recognized bible scholars are about as far as we'll reach off The Word.
In short, we both agree that Bill Salus is in great error. Its false teaching and presents a grave danger to those believing this scenario for giving a false witness. We hold this man in the same boat as false date setters.
I am speaking for Mrs C here....she is at work (from home) and cannot respond herself.
Mrs. C, Caver,
My, aren't we sticklers for detail ;)
But seriously, that is correct.
Scott took da wurds right outta my mouth. We've just been hanging around Bill Salus and his "Isralistine" a little bit too much, so we abreviate the whole Psalm83/Isaiah17 scenario as P83 when we should rightfully be saying I17 instead.
As to your scenario of the aftermath of I17, we had that discussion on another blog and the Hebrew wording of E38 is clear that Israel is dwelling in relative peace with a carelessly unsuspecting, false sense of security, and they have great spoil from "somewhere" that entices Gog to come for it. Clearly a different landscape from the P83 prayer.
Also, a short time of relative peace doesn't mean that they will have time to rebuild their nuke supply, and if they are truly out and Gog gets wind of it [thru a spy/traitor maybe], the Israelis will certainly know that they have absolutely no hope apart from God, so I don't have any problem seeing it from Salus' POV.
As far as burning TWOW, I haven't taken a real position. I can see it from Hart's POV too, as well as mine or yours...
;)
Mr & Mrs C, Scott...do any of you post on RR anymore? I've 'seen' you there in the past, but I was away from there for about a year myself (doing my back and forth pre-trib v. pre-wrath thingie!). Just wondering. Scott, I mentioned your blog to one of the mods and she didn't remember having heard of you, but I don't think she's been a moderator that long there either.
Hi Ellis,
Seems the mods there decided they no longer felt we were welcome and waved the "wand" our way. Chirs and Buzz kept exposing the Bill Salus and his "Isralistine" stuff that wasn't true. Mrs C kept coming back to him with conflicting scripture quotes and they got more than agitated.
Then, apparently, something was said on another message board and then next thing we knew we were banned.
Ellis...Thats a long story - the short answer is no.
I personally didn't have any problems, but I know many folks who did - and there were some disturbing things happening with some of the mods there that made me feel like it was best not to go there anymore. I should leave it at that. Its changed a lot over the years. Additionally, originally (5-6 years ago) it was a good place to learn, but after a while everything became redundant (in addition to some of the things that started happening a few years ago).
Sorry to hear that Caver. :(
I've only barely skimmed the Salus material myself. From the little I've read, it seems quite...ummm...well, I remember thinking to myself that that was a different take on it than what I had ever heard before, but what do I know? I confess to being rather confused and not at all knowledgeable about the Gog/Magog stuff and possible sequence of events and all of that. I think I'll just go over the comments here again and give it a good thinking.
One more think - I would never want to discourage anyone from going to any site that they learn from and like - one reason I don't go there is the same reason I don't go to hardly any message boards or prophecy sites - its just a lack of time....after getting through the news sites and posting here, I just don't have any time left...there are some great sites out there that I wish I had time for but there just aren't enough hours in the day!
OK, Scott. Yup, probably best to leave it at that, as you've said. ;) I don't want to stir up anything, we've got some serious 'watchmen' things to do, eh? I see you've got a new post up...so I've got some more reading to do.
Thanks! (You don't ever take a day off, do you? :) )
No way :)
There is too much going on - I'm so fortunate that God allows me to do prophecy - in all honesty, I don't want to let Him down. That is one reason I put so much into the bible studies and preaching at churches etc...I feel like God is the boss and I have to do a good job for Him!!
Ellis said... Mr & Mrs C, Scott...do any of you post on RR anymore?
Caver said... Chirs and Buzz kept exposing the Bill Salus and his "Isralistine" stuff that wasn't true.
Caver, I go Bart Simpson on you:
I know nothing of this, "I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything!"
Do you have a link to this "RR" - Salus" stuff, as I do, in fact, have an open mind [very slightly, tightly..] to 'consider' things... since I wuz able to successfully progress thru RCC, Church of Christ, GARB, Inde-Baptists, AOG, and local Christian Fellowships...
;)
Caver, Ok, let's git serious now!
Paula said... "...But! I do think that since Big Brother relies on electricity and internet connections and phone signals to spy on us, this means they will protect our electrical grid. Something to consider..."
Amen!
That is after E38, in the Trib, so, NO WAY can I buy into your idea of the so-called "literal interps" of what you put forth:
"...The invading forces are going to be on foot, chariots, and horses. These are not metaphors...its literal..."
I hope you're not also going to go "Red Letter Edition Only" on us next too!
There is just simply NO WAY that God was going to put "foreign words" & "concepts" [Bombs, missiles, incoming ICBMs streaking thru the heavens, Jet planes, Tanks, APCs... ], unknown in any, let alone, the Hebrew language, into the mouth of His Prophets, Stuff that would be totally incomprehensible and ridiculous for 2k yrs up until now and, on top of it all, reveal His Plans prematurely Satan!
He showed the them pix of the future and they spoke in terms of what they knew: A Humvee, tank, APC, charging with men actually visible in it --> a "chariot", incoming ICBMs streaking thru the heavens --> "falling stars! [Please check Dr.Reagan's excellent series on the coming Nuclear Holocaust] ...in Revelations "Does the Bible predict a nuclear holocaust?
Since E38 is pegged at the cusp of the Trib [by most scholars], and since all of the new gas & Oil discoveries that are happening in Israel [as predicted!]...
I think my previously stated assessment of Israel is correct, when the nuclear dust settles:
"...I think that world will be afraid of Israel, not knowing if they have any nukes left in their arsenal, and Israel will have a brief period of peace and wealth before Russia decides they don't like the competition for the EU gas & oil market, and goes E38 on them..."
Since it is also a fact that AC assumes world power after E38, it should be obvious that the "grid" and the "net" are fully operational and under his control! [as Paula suggested above]...
Again, a point to reconsider...
;)
Mrs C, Scott and Fellow Watchers :)
Happy Fathers Day! You all have been great providing supporting scripture to the grande finale. I could use some help on scriptures relating to China and these recent purchases in the U.S. and abroad. I have heard some at church quickly mention that Deuteronomy shows this. I would be interested in seeing the timing of this with the wonderful study that has been discussed here on Isaiah 17 and others. Any guidance would be appreciated. I love delving into the word to unpack his insights. I just don't know where to begin on this inquiry.
Have a wonderful day everyone. God Bless!
GG
Thats a good question, and I don't have the answers, perhaps someone else does.
I believe China is a HUGE player during the trib, and I believe there is a reasonable possibility that they will launch some nukes...and of course we know their armies will cross the Euphrates at some point prior to Armageddon in the lead-in to that epic series of battles.
As far as how their land purchases and "ownership" of the US - I have no idea. The easiest conclusion, is the fact that this could hasten and further the demise of the US - something else that has to happen. As far as more detail or the nuances involves - I am clueless :)
Good Afternoon DrNo. Wow!
Sorry for the late and somewhat disjointed response but it is a challenging day at the Caver household.
Can't confess to ever watching much of Bart….. Chuckling.
No, I don’t have any references to the specific RR thread. Never felt a need, just knocked the dust off the feet and kept walking. As Scott alluded to earlier, things started getting a little weird over there so moving on seemed the best idea. In fact if you want to do a little light reading, go to… http://kingdomstudies.blogspot.com/2009/06/banned-from-rapture-ready.html#comment-form … and you can read numerous comments from folks that were banned and/or felt RR was turning into a cult. Not endorsing any of them but it is interesting they were independently feeling the same thing.
Well, I’m not going to be getting quite as serious as you were but will give a quick response without spending a huge amount of time researching. Something about an old body shaking with the chills and feeling like it should be in bed on Fathers Day that dampens the enthusiasm and energy a bit.
Protecting the electrical grid as Paula said is a good concept and as much as practical, yes I would think that would be preferable for us…. or anybody else. But….it is what it is….and protection is only as good as it can be. I’m thinking specifically of that tree branch in, where….Chicago…a few years ago that took town the power grid in parts of 3 states and Canada. And that was unplanned as far as we know. Nation states are developing the next generation EMP that is directed, targeted, and does not require a nuclear detonation. In short, specific targets….cities, armies, resources can be targeted from controllable flying platforms. I don’t find it a stretch that Israel would be in the lead on this one. Further, Isaiah 17 is regional and does not, in any way, contradict the AC having the power alluded to.
Continued
Now, when the Bible tells me 3 separate times in 3 places, all in the context of Ez 38-39, where God Himself is describing the battle, that something is going to happen…..this boy takes notice and says Yes Sir! That’s important and my Father wants me to understand it and accept it. Birds will be eating the flesh of the invading forces to include horses. And several facts just to bring this one home, do a little research on the number of horses in Russia and surrounding and involved countries…..staggering. Did you see horses and donkeys being used by forces, including the CIA, in Afgan? Yes, Brother, I do believe its literal…..I believe He has made that abundantly clear in His Word. Second, look where this is going to happen at…..in the mountains of Israel…not Russia. That means the invading forces have made it all the way into Israel…..a sign that Israel is rich and powerful? And…as for the nukes, it doesn’t work. If the invading forces are that close it would seem Israel would be destroying as much of themselves as the enemy by using any left over nukes. Nuclear weapons have a huge reach….both immediate and after effects from the radioactive fallout.
AND….God doesn’t say the area is covered in nuclear fallout…in fact, quite the opposite. He orders His people to plunder the dead soldiers and take that which was stolen from them. Does it sound like they were covered in radioactivity.
For me and any number of others to accept Mr. Salus' theory, he is going to have to explain Ezekiel 39:10. That is the prophecy that Israel no longer has to chop and burn wood but can burn weapons. To me, that speaks pretty clearly that Israel was having to step back 80-100 years or so and use wood for fuel…..not a sign of a victorious, rich, and powerful country these days.
Several interesting reports have been published the last few years out of the ME…..winds have shifted….migratory patterns of birds are shifting….flesh eating birds are starting to pass over, and into, Israeli mountains again. Some are finding a home there and the population is growing. The timing sounds right to this boy.
Now, then only thing I’m absolutely positive of is that neither Mr. Salus, you, nor I have it exactly right. Not exactly….then the glory would go to us. No, way too much has happened in the last few years that just wasn’t within the realm of practical and possible….yet it happened exactly as prophecy said it would…..correct down to the exact phrases. As Chuck Missiler has said many times…..I have often had to change my view of prophecy…..and its always been in only one direction, from more allegory to more literal.
No, I just don’t find Mr. Salus’ Theory, as David Regan referred to it, consistent with scripture. We need not specify only the "Red Letter Edition Only" you referenced nor does arrogance, baiting, sarcasm, or attempted intimidation work well with me.
Dr. No….if we agree to disagree, so be it. It isn’t a salvation issue. It’s not worth sarcasm or getting personal.
I have had this discussion with the Cavers before :) - I recall a long, in-depth discussion, and I think I pulled them into possibly seeing point #2 below :).
I also believe that scenarios #2 and #3 are equally literal and 'specific" however.
My thoughts (FWIW - take with a grain of salt)...
1. I could easily see the scenario that Mr/Mrs Caver portray - especially if EMP weapons are used - (and I could EASILY see EMPs being used in the Middle East and elsewhere, including the US) which would render anything electronic useless, and in this scenario, everything seen in Ezek 38-39 would be highly 'literal' and 'specific' ('specific' being an important distinction, see below)...In this scenario, I could see the use of literal "horses" in play....I wouldn't rule this scenario out by any means.
2. Perhaps Ezekiel was "shown" different parts of this battle. Just as John saw certain, specific things in Rev 6-18, I doubt that he was shown every single detail. For instance, Ezekiel may have had revealed segments of the invasion, but not the entire region. In 38:15 he may have had revealed just the area coming in from the far north, - ie, those specifically led by "Gog", but perhaps not those led by Iran (woming from the 'west'?, and/or the Northern African segments. In this passage, God is specifically referring to Gog's part, and I would assume there are other parts of the invasion. Strategically, I wonder if Put/Cush etc, would really travel all the way around to the north and invade from there - which would seem awkward from a military aspect. It could be that these troops come in from the south (Cush/Put) or west (Iran) and "carried" to the battle-field differently that Gog's troops. Just food for thought
3. Another situation which I still believe could be seen as "literal" is the simple fact that Ezekiel couldn't put in words what he as shown. (this case is weakened, admittedly by the fact that unlike John's vision of the Trib., Ezekiel was seemingly given the information 'verbally' rather than visually...having said that - Ezekiel wouldn't have known what "Tanks" and "Jeeps" meant and he may have been given this information in language that he could understand. So "Horses" could have been given to Ezekiel as that was the closest thing he could understand...Like if we were given prophecy about something 2,500 years from now, and rather than say that people traveled in Heptalejon Vehicles, God would have said "tanks", so that we could understand.
Having said all of that, it doesn't really matter that much to me. If we're here, we'll find out, if we're not here we won't care :)
God Bless and GREAT discussion !
Oh - almost forgot - under scenario #2 ---> for whatever reason (local EMPs) etc- or perhaps because of the nuances of the terrain - horses would have to be used, (as certain vehicles couldn't be used in certain types of terrain) - this is the case, for instance in Afghanistan, where only travel on horseback makes sense.
Also of interest - and we can't forget this - Israel is light years ahead of any other nation in the technology of neutron bombs - which have a very short half-life but can cause massive damage to human's (while leaving buildings etc standing). The "marking" of bones in the aftermath (39:15-16) seems suggestive of some kind of post-neutron bomb cleanup. Thats just food for thought....One has to wonder if Israel will ever unleash this technology...It makes a LOT more sense than Israel using traditional nukes, as it would leave the entire region desolate - thus harming Israel as much as the enemy.
Again, just some food for thought :)
Oh - Caver - one more thing (Part II) - I was sick yesterday and felt terrible..I hope you don't have what I had...the good news is, feeling MUCH better today - hope you do too, brother.
Afternoon :) Now that I have Mr.Caver tucked in for needed rest, I have a moment to post before making a special dinner :)
I will share, and post something about Mr.Caver...that over the years...know one has known about him :) and I feel the time has come that folks know a little bit more. He is an extremely humble, and I mean extremely humble, man and over the years has never openly shared very much about his background. I am sharing this to let folks know, that the man knows his stuff! lol I will try to say this carefully :) He has been a Combat Off icier, has valiantly earned the Bronze Star, and has great knowledge of military strategy. He has extensive knowledge and experience in the nuclear field of science, the nuclear industry, and nuclear weaponry. He also has been in the Aerospace industry and has worked on "black hole" projects. Again, I feel I have to share this , as he never would himself. It is a great Blessing when he discusses the Prophetic battles to come. He may write like Mark Twain, as I call him at times, lol, but there’s a lot of incredible knowledge in this boys noggin!:) My hope is Brothers and Sisters, that you understand a little bit more, about Mr.Caver and where he is coming from when he fellowships and contributes in these discussions :)
Wow Mrs C....I knew a tiny bit but not all of that!
I'd really like to see what he thinks of neutron bomb technology etc...and EMP technology
Caver, sorry, I gotta quit staying up so late, start to lose my edge and get rummy.
I was going back over it and was going to take that out and for some unknown reason my hand clicked on post and I thot well that went real well, didn't it...
And I don't mind it if anyone lets me know if I'm going over the top a bit much.
I'll try real hard to restrain myself from going real long, but I think that you might be cross-linking points somewhat from my posts. My point on I17 is that Israel will possibly use up all nukes on her surrounding Arab nations and as usual Scott is quick and took the words outta my mouth again in mentioning neutron bombs.
I don't believe any of the Arab nations has or will have any nukes or non-nuke EMPs at the time and it seems that Iran will be prevented from lobbing theirs over IF they even have a working 1 when this goes down. So that leaves the thousands of rockets and missiles that Hamas has, and that will do a lot of damage to Israel and her population but judging from recent wars [Kosovo, & the 2 Iraqis] that hardly puts them back into the stone age.
I think in order for her to survive the IDF knows it can't sustain a protracted war against that many nations and it knows it will have to come out like a firebrand [Verse?]and "almost" preemptively take out the Arab armies with nukes as soon as the 1st salvo comes in. I believe the swiftness and ferocious intensity of their nuke attacks is the only thing that will prevent Israel from being severely damaged, and will cause the world to back off their meddling for a while 'til E38.
The 1st use of nukes since WW2 and the extensive use of them to nail all the armies and air bases will truly shock the world and as I said the world will be very much afraid of Israel, not knowing what they might do next.
I don't recall the ref right off hand, but the surviving Arabs will be under Israeli occupation, and many will come to know the Lord, since Allah dint show up to "deliver" them...
The burning of TWOW is after E38, going into the Trib, so I don't see how you got Israel in a "primitive" state after I17 gathering and burning TWOW prior to E38?!?
As for the EMP fear-mongering, I believe that's for US over here, not the ME, shades of George Orwell ... nuking 1 of our own cities every once in a while and blaming it on China, Iran, or N.Korea on a rotating basis depending on where the "Wheel of Mis-fortune" stops on each spin...
Scott, that's classified, Caver would have to say like Maverick said "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you..." [Top Gun]
Hafta take a break now ... all this thinking makes my head hurt...
;-D
This may mean little - nothing - but there was a period last year that generated conceern as Iran was testing missiles that initially appeared to be failing, but then, on second review, it appeared that they were detonating these missiles at certain altitudes and the speculation was, they were testing EMP explosions...Hal lindsey spoke a lot about this....My understanding is that EMPs are pretty easy and not complicated.
I don;t know a lot about this, but it is interesting. Some of the scientific magazines you can find make the case that EMPs are relatively easy to produce and could be launched from international waters....
We'll see, but I think this scenario is a possibility
As far as "I could tell you but.."....
I'm a "man of danger", DrNo...You should know that by now :)
Evening Scott
Pulled us into #2? Lol Lets see how we do on these lol
#1 Yupe
#2 Lets look at what God says
Ezekiel 38:15
15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
Everyone comes with Gog and from the North. Iran is not a leader, but a follower as in 38:5 God lists the Gog followers-tagalongs and Iran is included. Russia is clearly the leader. This tells us that between now and Ezekiel 38-39 something will happen to Iran to diminish them in power. Whether it be an earthquake or an Israeli attack, something will happen to Iran. Militarily, enemies of Israel have entered from the North for centuries. This is because this entrance is directly down the mountain range that runs through Israel. The spine of Israel so as to speak, and this is where God will destroy them, in the mountains. We know that Isaiah 17 precedes Ezekiel 38, therefore we have to look at the condition of the land at the end of that war.God describes His People, Israel as great suffering and “desolation”. Damascus, Jordan, and the West Bank are toast. Then we have the “Rebuke” of God by the surrounding nations that “rush in like many waters”. I believe this rebuke is the fulfillment of Ezekiel 25-32, His Judgments against these nations. Jordan, Gaza, Lebanon, Egypt will not participate in Ezekiel 38, that is why I believe these Ezekiel 25-32 Judgments are in fact when God “Rebukes” these nations in Isaiah 17:13
13The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
The survivors of the “Rebuke”, “flee a far off”. They run to Russia, as she is the ally of most of them. God tells us that Gog is their protector.
Ezekiel 38:7
7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
By the end of Isaiah 17, we have Damascus – gone, West Bank taken down, & Jordan. Combined with the Ezekiel 25-32 Judgments, (Amman,Moab(in the south),Edom Judged – Lebanon covered in water “never to be found again”! and Egypt all face sever Judgment. All of these nations are in very close proximity to each other.
Just with the Isaiah 17 events alone, the topography when this war is over, will not be as we know it now. God says Gog and all of his followers will come in from the North, and I believe that will be their only choice
#3 I too used to believe as you say, tanks etc. However, when reading this for the cazillinth time one night, the Holy Spirit prompted me big time God refers to the birds feasting on the dead several times in Ezekiel 38-39, and I read the Verses again that pertain to the birds. And this Verse was the clencher
Ezekiel 39
20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
God continually speaks of horses being eaten, along with everyone else, but He also speaks of CHARIOTS being eaten by the birds. Tanks, Humvees, cannot be eaten by birds! Forgive me for getting graphic, but chariots are made of wood, they had to be because of the weight for the horses to pull. Wood soaked in flesh, blood, birds will eat. Also as mentioned, we have Gog and his tagalongs entering into Israel from the North, around the devastation from the Isaiah 17 war. The topography wont be the same as it is now. Just a taste from 2007, of the world horse population.
“The figures for Europe show the Russian Federation as having the most horses, at 1,319,358, followed by Romania (834,000), then Ukraine (585,000), Germany (500,400), France (422,872). The United Kingdom is estimated at 185,000.”
As for the nukes being used in Ezekiel 38-39, we have to look at Gods Purpose in this event. This is all about Him restoring His Covenant with His People. If weapons were used for example, it would be man getting the credit. God clearly says that He has orchestrated this whole event, and He will show His People that He is back, in fullness with them once again. He Himself will destroy the enemies of Israel.
As for the “post-neutron bomb cleanup” I too used to think that also, until again, the Holy Spirit prompted me to look more closely. Ezekiel 39:
Vs 13 God tells us “all the people of the land shall bury them”, that is all the civilians, all. It will take them 7 months Vs 12. They would not have “all the people” taking the risk of burying radioactive bodies. Then in Vs 14, they move to hiring “men of continual employment” for the job. Finally, in Vs. 15 we have people marking bones. By this time, they are implementing Jewish Law . We have all seen the horrible bus bombings in Israel. Have you ever noticed the men quickly moving around the scene with bags, and wearing organ vests? Those are a special teem of men, Rabbis, whose job it is to collect any and every part of human remains. This is according to Jewish Law, which states that dead bodies are “unclean”, and God tells us in Vs 16 that these hired men “Thus shall they cleanse the land. “
God Bless You Brother!
Wow Mrs C....I knew a tiny bit but not all of that!
I'd really like to see what he thinks of neutron bomb technology etc...and EMP technology
Yes, all of that :) He was up for dinner, and back in bed for the night :( Im sure he will be talking with you, and thats all I'll say :) :)
God Bless You Brother!
HI Guys,
Thank you all for the well wishes and very kind words.
DrNo, accidentally hitting the "post" button before ready......hummmm, I think I can relate to that on numerous "feet-n-mouth" occasions myself. Thank you for the explanation.
Thank you for your clarifications.
Guys, don't know what has got me but something has. Got about 16-18 hours sleep during the last 24 and still not "right".
Believe me, continuation of this conversation requires a head somewhere in the vecinity of the top of the shoulders and right now mine is anywhere but..... So, shall we say this conversation can be continued on specific issues as they come up in the future. Somehow, I suspect many more hours asleep are in my immediate furture.
God Speed Everyone!:Hug
I would like to say to everyone that the commentary from this post has been the most enlightening I have ever witnessed.
Hard things are said here sometimes but we all know because we are in Christ that they aren't personal. One of the greatest gifts mankind was ever given was that of individuality. We are the sumtotal of all our experiences both good and bad. The difference for Christians is that through Christ we learn from our mistakes and learn to love ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and most importantly, we grow closer to Christ having learned just a tiny bit more about love.
Mr & Mrs C, Scott, Dr No and Hart, I thank God for your witness and with the integrity with which you present your views. God is great and your love for Him speaks volumes to all of us here who gather to fellowship.
I am so looking forward to being with all of you in Heaven. Won't it be great to see each other there and know we were brought together through Scott's ministry for the purpose of preparing ourselves and helping to prepare those who would listen. I'm truly honored to read your comments and I look forward to the great continuing discussion on how God is bringing this all together. With all of your help here I know I will be ready.
To God be the Glory!!!
I would like to say to everyone that the commentary from this post has been the most enlightening I have ever witnessed.
Hard things are said here sometimes but we all know because we are in Christ that they aren't personal. One of the greatest gifts mankind was ever given was that of individuality. We are the sumtotal of all our experiences both good and bad. The difference for Christians is that through Christ we learn from our mistakes and learn to love ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and most importantly, we grow closer to Christ having learned just a tiny bit more about love.
Mr & Mrs C, Scott, Dr No and Hart, I thank God for your witness and with the integrity with which you present your views. God is great and your love for Him speaks volumes to all of us here who gather to fellowship.
I am so looking forward to being with all of you in Heaven. Won't it be great to see each other there and know we were brought together through Scott's ministry for the purpose of preparing ourselves and helping to prepare those who would listen. I'm truly honored to read your comments and I look forward to the great continuing discussion on how God is bringing this all together. With all of your help here I know I will be ready.
To God be the Glory!!!
James, words simply fail. On behalf of Mrs. C and I....Thank You! :Hug
Its always a privilege to study and discuss His living Word together....that's part of our job as Watchmen. I share and echo my gratitude to all involved and especially to Scott for this forum to fellowship and share and learn and grow.
James is awesome - I have had the pleasure of getting to know him - and he brings SO much to the place - same as the Cavers (if we can ever get Mr Caver healthy again...Even DrNo is ok :) ((just kidding)) - :)
Thank you Mr C. and Scott. You guys are awesome.
I see everyone & their mother is trying to get the last word in to set a new world record for Scott's blog ... mine's #77
:-D
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