Just what is going on in our world?
Is anyone noticing that things just aren't "normal" anymore?
Lets take a look at a day's worth of headlines (and this isn't comprehensive by ANY means):
Flooded Australian city "like war zone"
Sicily looks on as Mount Etna erupts in spectacular fashion
Price shocks, Food Shortages and Global Economic Riots in 2011?
Rising food prices push countries to avert crisis
Brace for a crisis: President cautions of impending food crisis
Why a flooded Australia WIll Probably Boost Soaring Energy and Food Prices
More than 500 dead in Brazil's worst-ever disaster
Huge Fireball Spotted Over Southeast US
Magnitude 7.3 quake strikes off New Caledonia: USGS
Mount Edna Blasts Lava, Ash into the Sky
UN alarmed by mass graves in Ivory Coast
Will collapse of Lebanon's government lead to war?
In Pictures: Australia Biblical Floods
Death toll rises as Tunisian president promises change
U.S. Prepares For New Decade Of War In Asia
Planet War
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And this is actually a small sample of our world today. Our world in these final days as the countdown to the Tribulation continues. And many items were left off the above headlines because they weren't newsworthy today:
- Fears of reemerging Bird Flu and Swine Flu
- Iran's race to nuclear weapons
- Earthquakes around the world
- Riots around Europe as economies collapse
- The shift into a world currency and world governance
- Mysterious (still unexplained) massive bird and fish deaths around the world
The list goes on and on, but the headlines tell the story.
Our world is changing rapidly, just as foretold by the ancient prophets. Prophets that now serve as our guide through these rough waters. Thankfully, we have hope as we "endure" this world: Hope that has been given to us through the biblical scriptures which have completely defined this age in order to warn us and to comfort us.
The Bible tells us that our redemption is close at hand - that Jesus is close at hand. We are living in an era which has been described for centuries - as forewarned by God Himself through the prophets.
We're going to be just fine.
Keep looking up - Our Savior is coming and He is coming soon.
hey scott i have yet another question...if we can prove the unsaved do NOT enter the millineum then the post-trib senerio is completely debunked. there is an increasing number of people saying the unsaved enter the millineum and that the sheep&goat judgement is the same as the great white throne judgement. how can we IRREFUTABLY prove the unsaved do not enter the millineum? i been going back in forth with a "postie" for some time and this person is trying to convince some students of a post-trib coming.
ReplyDelete....and please include as many points as possible (this goes for anyone else reading this who may wish to reply....this includes you e.i and dr nofog. y`all usually have great points)
ReplyDeleteHart
ReplyDeleteI just logged on - so let me give this some thought and come back to it, but in the meantime, why don't you reverse the question and ask for proof that unsaved DO enter Mill Reign?
good point....they usually cite zacheriah 14:16-19...the one about survivors from the nations that come against jerusalem and the ones that dont go to the feast therefore the survivors MUST be unbelievers and matt 25 mentions ETERNAL life and the ETERNAL fire therfore it must be the eternal state not millineal. will look forward to your reply (tho the research may take time)
ReplyDelete....by the way it must be stated that tho this is a secondary issue and one that must not be divided over it seems to me that the post-trib positions robs people of the anticipation and hope of seeing their Lord soon and causes one to not be watching for his return. and a real downer position. know what i mean? furthermore i`d rather be an amillinealist that a "postie" at least with amallinialism you can still hope for christ return and start the eternal state even tho there`s no millineum.
ReplyDeleteA post trib rapture, to me, is so remote and so ridiculous...The pre-wrath and mid-tribbers at least have a couple of rational arguments.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all - if there is a post trib rapture, then how did the wedding allready take place, as referenced in Rev 19?
Secondly, if the rapture happens after the Trib - where is the description in Rev 19?
Also - Jesus explained that He received "God's Wrath" on our behalf. We know that throughout the New Test. So: If thats the case, then why would we have to endure God's wrath (again?) - Jesus already did that for us -- so does a post-trib view contradict that? Of course it does.
To me, one has to look at the gathering of the Sheep and the Goats as the best explanation. Matthew 25:41 gives the answer definitively IMO. "Depart from me you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles. ".
Scott:
ReplyDeleteJames here.
I am commenting on this paragraph in your reply above.
"Also - Jesus explained that He received "God's Wrath" on our behalf. We know that throughout the New Test. So: If thats the case, then why would we have to endure God's wrath (again?) - Jesus already did that for us -- so does a post-trib view contradict that? Of course it does."
I agree. If we had to endure God's wrath again then Jesus certainly wasn't who He said He was and there would have been no reason for him to die. Like you and I dsiscussed before,having to experience God's wrath again means there is no hope of Heaven and it all ends with our death.
AMEN JAMES!
ReplyDeletei totally agree with ALL your statements and a simple look at the sheep&goat judgement places it at the 2nd coming NOT the same as the great white throne. my friend (yes he is my friend and a Godly person just mistaken)simply feels a need to hold his pre-concieved ideas.
ReplyDeleteHartdawg
ReplyDeleteJust to say I have a 'thick head' from a cold and I cannot seem to be able to think properly so I am not ignoring you.
Does this make sense - no verses -
at the 2nd Coming ALL UNbelievers are killed.
Tribulation saints - Jew and Gentile are the ONLY one's that go into to 1000yrs.
Sheep and goats are a resurrection of certain dead. Sheep good uns; goats bad uns. This takes place AFTER the 2nd coming years during the interim of 75 days. ie NO -zilch- physical unbelievers exost.
Dohhh this toad!
Sue
PS
ReplyDeletethe Great White Throne judgment takes place at the end of the 1000 years.
sniff.
PPS
ReplyDeletePhysical saved ONLY enter 1000yrs. Jew and Gentile. They have CHILDREN, theres still death in 1000yrs and punishment for rebellion.
its the OFFSPRING of the Tribulation saints that respond to Satan at the end of the Mill, when he is released for a while. They attack Jerusalem and are zapped.
End of heaven and earth, rolled up like a scroll then burned up.
John sees new heaven and earth and new Jerusalem - this is the start of eternity no more sin.
The 7 years ends at 2nd Coming. The Millennium does not begin immediately! There is to be a 75 day interval between the end of the Great Tribulation and the start of the 1000 year which is the Messianic Rule of Jesus Christ on physical earth.
ReplyDeleteThe INTERVAL is in Daniel 12:11-12.
“And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the ABOMINATION of DESOLATION is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
1,260 days (3 ½ years) is mentioned twice.
1st.
a. It refers to the first half of Daniels Week which begins with the confirmation of a Covenant for 7 years. Daniel 9:24-27.
b. Which is when the Lamb breaks the first seal and the white horse rides out. Revelation 1:6.
This is the REVEALING of the a/c in 2Thess2:6,7 and begins the ‘shavuah’ (Week)
c. Progressing to the middle of the Week (3 ½ years) when a/c takes over the rebuilt Jewish Temple and sets up the Abomination of Desolation.
2nd.
a. It refers to the second half of Daniels Week (3 ½ years) Also called Great Tribulation.
b. This runs from when the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the Temple by the a/c, who then rules the world until the 2nd Coming of Jesus (when the stone hits the feet of the great statue)
c. The demise of a/c and the end of the Tribulation comes 1,260 days (3 ½ years) from the MID point of the Tribulation (7 years in total).
In Daniel 12:11-12, two other figures are given.
a. First to be mentioned is 1,290 days; which are an extra 30days added to the 1,260 days.
During which the Abomination of Desolation is still in the Temple to await removal.
b. Second figure given is 1,335 days, which is 45 days beyond the 1,290 day period. A special blessing is given for those who make it to the 1,335th day.
Special blessing for those who physically survive until the 75th day; these enter the Messianic Kingdom on earth.
There will be those who manage to survive to the 1,260th day; but die before the 1,335th day.
Several events transpire during 75 day interval, not possible to judge chronological sequence of events only thematically.
A)The removal of the AD. Daniel 12:11.
ReplyDeleteEvent to signal start of 3 ½ years of Great Tribulation is when a/c enters Temple claiming to be god. Orders False Prophet to set up his image in the Temple; the A.D.A/c retains control for 1260 days, after which he will be KILLED. Desecration of Temple continues beyond the 1,260th day, for another 30 days until the 1,290th day. Then AD destroyed.
B) The Anti-christ and counterfeit trinity. Revelation 19:20
A/c is cast ALIVE into the lake of fire! This requires for a/c to be resurrected during interval to fit prophecy in Isaiah14:20 which states a/c WILL NOT SEE BURIAL. (Unlike Gog of Ezek.39).
Counterfeit christ also has a resurrection.
The First Resurrection applies to ALL the righteous although it comes in stages.
The Second Resurrection applies to the damned, which also comes in stages!
A/c the counterfeit ‘Firstfruit’ of the second resurrection into the Lake of Fire, along with-
C) The False Prophet.
D) Satan into Abyss for 1000 years.Rev.20:1-3.
E) Judgment of Gentiles – INDIVIDUALS e.g. at home, not at Armageddon. Joel 3:1-3. Zech.14:1-2; Matt25:31-46.
F) Resurrection of Old Testament Saints. Isaiah 26:19; Dan12:2. (Friends of Bridegroom John 3:29. Context of Dan12:2 events AFTER Tribulation, time O.T. Saints resurrected.
G) Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints. Those who become believers during the Tribulation. Rev.20:4. John sees two groups of saints co-reigning with Messiah.
1) Church.
2) Be-headed Tribulation Saints.
H) First Resurrection believers ONLY Rev.20:5-6. Each in ‘own order’, regimental term for a sequence of troops. 1Cor15:20-23.
First. Jesus vs.23.
Second. Pretrib Raptured Church. 1Thess4:16.
Third. Two Witnesses mid trib.
Fourth. O.T. Saints Isaiah 26:19; Dan12:2.(During 75 day interval)
Fifth. Tribulation Saints. Rev.20:4. Completes the First Resurrection.
No such thing as a resurrection of Millennium Saints!
I)The Marriage FEAST of the Lamb. (Guests now present – O.T. Saints and the Trib. Saints). Invite sent in Rev.19:9.
1000 years later :
Loosing of Satan.
Final invasion of Israel.
The Great White Throne Judgment.
The Second Resurrection followed by the second death the Lake of Fire.
Passing away of old order, creation of Eternal Order.
The New Heavens.
The New Earth.
The New Jerusalem.
Hello Hartdawg
ReplyDeleteI do hope this has helped. I can have my cold in peace now. :)
Info gained via:
‘The Footsteps of The Messiah’
A Study of the Sequence of Prophetic Events.
Dr.Arnold G Fruchtenbaum
http://www.ariel.org/
God bless
Sue
Scott, DrNofog, Hartdawg
ReplyDeleteFor your information. In Audio and Transcript.
Bible Framework Course. Dr. Charles Clough.
Ch.5. The Destiny of the Church
216 Postrib mixing the rapture and 2nd advent and the Church and the Tribulation.
217 Unique Features of the Three-Quarter Tribulationism Redefining the wrath of God.
218 Three quarter trib continued.
219 Mid Trib
ETC
http://www.bibleframework.com/course/part6/
SUE,
ReplyDeleteIts funny, I realized as I was reading all of this - I found myself nodding in agreement the whole time!
And "Footsteps" is one of the few books I keep at bedside :)
Scott
ReplyDeleteMe too! :)
Have you noticed how AF's writing syle is so 'Hebrew'. It doesn't flow chronologically which makes it perfect for dipping in and out of for quick info. Of course he is Jewish, but not all Jews have that style, I find it rather 'Biblical'.
At first I was bewildered, but now I realise it encouraged me to really think about what he was explaining. If I don't, 'think' I miss important points and get lost.
Facinating!
Sad about your golf! One good thing about that, you stand less chance of being struck by lightening today! :D