Friday, December 30, 2011

On The Brink With Iran

The rhetoric around Iran is increasing by the day - rhetoric which includes threats of increasing sanctions, threats of war, threats of closing the Strait of Hormuz, and threats of armed conflict and outright war. It's hard to imagine that this can continue much longer without something breaking.

Today we see yet another development which points towards conflict:

Iran Raises Anti-US Threat Level: Israel's C-of-S Warns Of Regional War

Thursday afternoon, Dec. 29, Tehran raised the pitch of its threats to the United States when Dep. Chief of the Revolutionary Guards Gen. Hossein Salami declared: "The United States is in no position to tell Tehran what to do in the Strait of Hormuz," adding, "Any threat will be responded [to] by threat… We will not relinquish our strategic moves in Iran's vital interests are undermined by any means."

At around the same time, Israel's chief of staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz spoke of "the rising potential for a multi-arena event," i.e. a comprehensive armed conflict. Facing in several directions as we are "between terrorist organizations and Iran's progress toward a nuclear weapon… we can't afford to stay on the defensive and must come up with offensive measures," he said.

US and NATO task forces in the Persian Gulf have been placed on alert after US intelligence warned that Iran's Revolutionary Guards are preparing Iranian marine commandos to sow mines in the strategic Strait of Hormuz.

Middle East sources warn however that the repeated threats to close the Strait of Hormuz coming from Tehran this week and the framework of its naval exercise clearly point to the manner in which Iran intends to hit back for the tough new sanctions which the West plans to approve next month. The new round is expected to shear off 80 percent of the Islamic Republic's revenues.

The European Union's 27 member-states meet in January to approve an embargo on Iranian oil, with effect on 25 percent of Iran's energy exports. Next month, too, President Barack Obama plans to sign into law an amendment authorizing severe penalties for foreign banks trading with Iran's central bank, CBI, including the loss of links with American banks and financial institutions.

Tehran is expected to strike back hard by sowing mines in Hormuz and in the waters opposite the oil fields and terminals of fellow Persian Gulf oil producers, including Saudi Arabia.


Interestingly, we see this happening at the same time:

US Military Chief To Visit Israel To Reassure On Iran

Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs, will arrive in Israel next month for talks aimed at reassuring Israel that the US is serious about stopping Iran’s nuclear program.

Dempsey will arrive in mid- January in a trip that comes as the US escalates its rhetoric regarding US military preparations to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities.

In an interview with CNN last week, Dempsey said that preparations for a military option “are evolving to a point that they would be executable if necessary.”

Talks with Dempsey are expected to focus on Iran’s nuclear program as well as regional developments such as the challenges Israel faces from a possible Islamic takeover in Egypt and from Hezbollah and Syria in the North.


Also see:

The Gathering Storm: A Pessimistic Prognosis For 2012

Israel and the U.S. will soon be called upon to decide between a preemptive military strike and coming to terms with Iran as the world’s tenth nuclear power.

In the moment of truth, if left with no other choice, I believe that Israel will choose the military option.


Realizing this, and acknowledging that a nuclear Iran is a clear and present danger to its own national security, the United States may take upon itself to carry most of the burden. From Israel’s point of view, the latter scenario is immeasurably preferable to the former, but in both cases, the cure might be just as bad, or perhaps even worse, than the disease itself, as so many of Israel’s security chiefs, in the army, the Shin Bet and the Mossad, have argued in recent years.

Iran and, no less importantly, the increasingly unpredictable Syria, have hundreds of long range, high yield ballistic missiles capable of delivering many tons of TNT as well as chemical and biological warheads to any point in Israel;

Hezbollah has at least 40,000 short and medium range missiles that could inflict heavy damage on Israel’s north; Hamas in Gaza, though not in that league, could also launch scores of less destructive but no less traumatizing missiles into Israeli cities south of Tel Aviv while creating mayhem on the borders as well; and West Bank Palestinians, as well as some Israeli Arabs, could very well decide to join such an offensive jihad themselves.


And this:

Will A U.S. Attack On Iran Become Obama's "October Surprise"?

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45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Just got the EWI short term update>>>>>

Current wave counts indicate POSSIBLE bulling to 12,400
but I say possible, cause if
selling comes in on 12-30-11,
then all bets are OFF, down we go...

Critical news is that EVEN IF bulls
do run to 12,400, IT WILL NOT
LAST !!!!

so either way, bulls are WALKING
on EGGS.....end of number (2)
IS AT THE DOOR !!!!

I cannot say WHEN this will all
hit the fan, BUT it is getting
close.

Any kind of HARD SELL on the 30th
would indicate POSSIBLE PROBLEMS
in the ME this weekend...

stay tuned....

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>

DrWho said...

Honestly, we are provoking another war. We have emboldened Radical Islam. The BATF has been instructed to allow foreigners in the US to buy guns. There is no "war on terror" the war is on ourselves. Supporting the troops does not mean sending them off to die and be maimed.

I was once a hawk, but for the life of me I do not see how I can justify embargos, bombings, depleated uranium, rendition, torture and targeted assassinations in the name of God and country.

I understand the concept of self-defense and would use force to defend my family. I would not get in my car and drive across town to kill someone "pre-emptivly" because they might hurt someone someday.

I guess it comes down to WWJD? I don't believe that Jesus would order troops to invade Iran.

What am I missing?

Anonymous said...

Matthew 26:52 says it well....

Quoting Jesus >>>>

THOSE WHO TAKE UP THE SWORD WILL
PERISH BY THE SWORD.

AND it is QUITE obvious that the
USA is JUST as guilty of that as
many other nations in this world.

So the consequences will follow.

Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Robin said...

Maybe that October surprise is a new currency?  I came across this interesting AP article, this morning.   At the outset, one thinks they're reading a story about the imminent demise of the Euro . . .and then, buried within the story is this sneaky little section. From the story:

Today's pessimism recalls the early days, when consumers worried that the currency would do them in financially, as shopkeepers took advantage of the changeover to hike prices. Maria Esteban, a catering manager in Madrid, remembered the price of a beer jumping from 150 pesetas to euro1.50 — an increase of 66 percent.
"People barely knew what they were paying," said the 50-year-old.
Prices that had been set for their ease — 10 francs, which was one coin, for a cone of roasted chestnuts in Paris, for instance — saw some of the most egregious markups. Overnight, those chestnuts rose by a third — to euro2, also a single coin.
A European Central Bank analysis found that while the perception that prices skyrocketed after the euro is generally exaggerated, 0.3 percentage point of 2002's 2.3 percent inflation was due to the introduction of the new notes and coins.
But, after that first uneasy year, an EU survey found that just over half of respondents thought the euro was "overall advantageous," while nearly a third thought the opposite. By 2007, at the height of an economic boom and with calls for the euro to become the world's reserve currency, 72 percent thought the currency was a "good thing" for Europe.
In the EU's latest survey, that figure has fallen to around two-thirds of respondents, and the economic downturn has renewed complaints about the squeeze exerted by the single currency.

***

So polls show prices increases when EU nations switched from their former soverign currency to the collective Euro currency were largely exaggerated . . .and oh look, a few years later, Europeans were in love with their new currency.

Meanwhile, the US is sitting on this pesky greenback with an insurmountable debt . . .and the brainwashing begins. I predict, within a few months time, after being regaled with media spin, our banks will take a nice little holiday . . .and reopen to a brand new currency. Prices in stores will LOOK the same, but at the end of the first month, when there's not much or nothing left . . .things won't look so rosy anymore . . .


http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/cae69a7523db45408eeb2b3a98c0c9c5/Article_2011-12-30-EU-Euros-10-Years-On/id-b69c5180f96d4e43a8895383e8cac8dd

Dave DU said...

Doc I think I'm hearing ya. But please try not to focus on the transition going on in your country and relate it to the world scene. Yes it's terrible what the US government is doing but, there is a terrible aggressor rising up out of Persia. This is a threat with world wide consequences.
Iran is a nation run by people who want the destruction of Israel and the world, and really believe that the time to do it is now.
Planet security is being threatened and as Christians we should always be the first ones to support justice. In this case justice is needed against this rising islamic nuclear armed aggressor. Sometimes you've got to bloody the other guys nose so he gets the message to "back off". So would Jesus order the invasion of Iran or any other aggressor nation? Damn straight he would. We were never meant to be "national door mats", turning our proverbial cheek to a nuclear armed aggressor.

Just my thoughts Dave.

Robin said...

With regards to war between Israel and Iran:

Ezekiel 38:8-9

8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 

9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

It's important to note, that Israel will be living in a time of Peace.  They haven't had a day's peace since the nation of Israel was reestablished in 1948.  Furthermore, it's Russia and her allies which includes Iran that does the invading, not the other way around.  

So, while this war might well happen, respectfully, I don't think this is the prophetic war we're looking for.  In order for Israel to "live in safety", Iran and Syria, as well as Egypt, Jordan, etc, need to be declawed.  Is this the war that would do that?  Maybe, but just came across this breaking headline.  The story hasn't been posted yet, but the breaking headline is now in the Newswires:

BreakingNews: Iran's navy will fire 'long-range missiles' during drill in Persian Gulf on Saturday, admiral tells semi-official Fars news agency - Reuters
Dec 30, 2011 6:29 AM »

Mrs.C said...

Bro/Sis Dr.Who,
Forgive me, but “we” are not the “provokers”. We have discussed this before, and again, forgive me, but this is typical left wing talking points as you have stated before. The obummer crowd running around the world apologizing for the U.S. the “we’re so bad” crowd.
Making such outrageous statements as “we have emboldened Radical Islam” is absurd! I would suppose by your statements, that the horrific 911 attack, was “our fault”, right? The facts are, that because of this exact same attitude (Clinton) we had the 911 attack!
Yes indeed, those statements go right along with Nancy Pelosi removing any reference to the “war on terror” from the Congressional documents! What! These folks that stick their heads in the sand, and pretend nothing is happening, are appalling! Its like the King has no clothes! Its like saying “oh don’t fight back, it may make the bully more angry”.
War is a very, very ugly and painful thing, and it has been for centuries! Forgive me again, but do you know anything regarding history? Men and women have died and been maimed for quite some time, that is the price that is paid for wars. I cannot, and will not accept your demeaning of their honorable service by suggesting all was for not. How do you “support” the troops? What do you do for those that fight and have fought for this wonderful nation? Do you tell them and say to them that they are horrible things? Or do you thank them for PROTECTING your family because that’s what they do! When a soldier is issued a gun, what do you think they are going to use it for? Why do you think they are trained in combat for? Do you not think they know what they are up against when deployed? They know full well the risks, and they VOLUNTEER DO IT FOR FOLKS LIKE YOU! Should we never fight?
Until the Lord comes, there will be brutal evil people that run nations. It is the history of man, there is always greed and power to be sought. To much who is given, much is expected! And this nation has been Blessed beyond any other nation! We are to just sit back as isolationist and ignore the suffering of other people for example? If the prevalent isolationism had been allowed to run a muck in the U.S. during Hitler’s reign, we’d all be speaking German!

Mrs.C said...

(Continued)
Do you not think that Stalin, Hilter, Mussolini were targeted for assassination by the Allied Forces? Were they not evil men? You think the millions that died in Germany was horrific, it is estimated that over 40 million died at the hands of the Russians leaders in the gulags. Should we care about that? Or just ourselves?
Forgive me again, but your list of reasons, suggest that perhaps you never were a “hawk”, as they are classic long standing left wing liberal talking points.
Do you understand the concept of “self defense”, do you really? Preemptive is “killing” them, as you say, before they kill you! Its not a matter of “maybe some day”, it’s a certainty that it will happen if you don’t stop it. Using your neighborhood analogy, lets say there was a group that was slowly going from neighborhood to neighborhood killing women and children, destroying, and other horrendous things. Would you wait until they overwhelm you, and are at your front door? Would allowing them to continue to harm your neighbors, be ok with you, as long as its not your family? Is that what Jesus taught?
Or if given the opportunity to stop them before hand, why would you not stop them?
What would Jesus do? I will simply repeat, what I had once shared with you before.

We cannot acquiesce to evil, and Our Father, Our Lord Jesus will expect no less from us. We will be accountable to Him in the not to distant future. Many “Christians” said nothing when evil raised its vile head in Germany, and we all know the death of millions occurred because evil was allowed to thrive.
Jesus laid down His life as a sacrificial Lamb (Rev.5:12) as it was required for our Salvation, but He will return as a Lion, and will personally destroy all evil, no exceptions! That lamb-like disposition that Christ possessed in the redemption work was replaced with the vicious disposition of a lion in the work of judgment Jesus is described as a Lamb and as a Lion. Rev. 5:5-6
A lion is a fierce, ferocious, and fearless animal, particularly when provoked by an enemy. He has a vociferous and terrifying voice and when he roars, all beasts tremble. They love their young and will stand invincible against all who threaten them, never yielding until death so that their young might be safe.
So it is with Christ, when He is aroused by the enemies of His Church and the cries of His people. He will rise up like a lion to destroy. When Jesus speaks at the last day and come to judge, He will make the whole world tremble.
Joel 3:16
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Just as Gods Plan of Salvation through His Son our Lord Jesus was unstoppable, we can do nothing that would change His Plans for these Last Days. Jesus dwells within each one of us, and we within Him. He is now both Lamb and Lion, which when seeking Him as an example to follow, referring to your question “what would Jesus do”, we are both also. Jesus has Risen, and has moved passed the Cross.
God Bless!

Mrs.C said...

Hi Sister Robin :)
I have to respectfully disagree. Israel will not be "at peace" but in recovery. The words "Peace and safety", come from 1 Thessalonians 5:3. In Ezekiel 38, Gods Word says that Israel is "at rest", followed by a comma, "that dwell safely", He does not use the word “peace”.
Ezekiel 38:8
8.After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:11
11.And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

God describes His People as being "at rest" followed by the enhancement of "dwell safely". Why "at rest"? At "rest" from what? They will be recovering from the horrendous Isaiah 17 war, which leaves them helpless, severely wounded, and vulnerable to the Ezekiel 38 invasion just as God wants them to be. Israel’s immediate surrounding enemies have been destroyed. They will have God, and God only to save them.
Ezekiel looked into the future at Israel, and saw no "defense" walls around the many cities (villages) of Israel. The walls of Ezekiel’s day, wouldnt stop missiles or anything else for that matter, in today’s world. In addition, a "village" in Ezekiel’s day, without walls, would indicate that they have no enemies - no need for defensive walls, they were secure.
Again, they will, momentarily, have no enemies close by, as they have been destroyed and dispersed in the pre-ceding Isaiah 17 war.

God Bless!

Anonymous said...

Mrs. C: Can you please explain the peace and safety of 1 Thessalonians 5:3? I have always wondered what this is, please respond when you have time.

WVBORN56 said...

Mrs C... good call on standing up against evil! I think maybe DrWho like many of us just don't trust the true motives of our government anymore. It's hard to wholeheartedly follow their leadership. I don't want to speak for anyone else so maybe he can clarify his point. The whole "right to protect" is what I have a problem with in destablizing all these ME countries. We have a disaster in Egypt and it looks like we are going to do the same thing in Syria.

Iran is another issue altogether that we certainly need to take a firm stand against. But again I don't trust the folks in charge "pretending" to have our best interest at heart. That really went for Bush as well and not just Obama. Both certainly appear to be willing puppets.

In the end I will trust the Lord to work out His good and perfect will. What we are seeing is certainly fitting into the end time Biblical prophecy perfectly.

As far as "what would Jesus do"...well, I don't think we are going to have to wait much longer. I don't think He is or will be the weak ruler the world make him out to be. We know from scripture he will rule with an iron fist during the millenium. "Thy will be done Lord, on earth as it is in heaven."

Maranatha!

DrWho said...

Let metry to clarify where I am coming from. The current administration has done the following to name but a few...

Repealed Dont ask Dont Tell
Decriminalized beastiality in the military.
Supported NDAAand indefinite detention of US citizens.
Toppled the Libyan government and replaced it with Al Queda.
Toppled the Egytian government and replaced it with the Muslim Brotherhood.
Told Israel to go back to pre-1967 borders.
Called the Ft. Hood shooting, workplace violence.
Etc,

Now we as Christians are supposed to fall in line and support his next war?

We in the US are being programed by the media to support another war. Maybe because it helps ratings, maybe because it is a sin.

ally said...

First, I would like to compliment you Stephen.Your quoting of matt. pretty much hit the nail on the head! I hate when we end up in this political cesspool and somehow "Jesus" gets dragged into it. So I am going to, for one more time, explain something, that I pray desperately that all people here finally get and asorb into the very fiber of your being! Please take off your preconceived notions and wake the you know what up!!!!! In the HOLY BIBLE we are told that we are fighting against spiritual wickedness in high places! That can mean in the heavenlies. It also means spiritual wickedness in high government positions! Hello people! Mrs. C, please prayerfully read Albert Pike's letter again! And reread it until it sinks into your head what is really going on here! Please please please! I just dont understand why you don't seem to "get" it yet. Look-in the plainest english possible...There has been a plan going on since Adam and Eve, a war between good and evil. A redemption of frail ignorant sinful mankind! Thank you Jesus for your precious blood! To keep it current, read Albert Pike's letter...he lays out Satan's plan for the 3 world wars. 2 Are done. 1 to go. Very easy to understand.And they went down exactly as stated. so will the 3rd one. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise! Honey, I love you so much! And you know the good book from front to back! And you are a good and faithful servant, probably much more than I. Please try to see what I am saying. God is trying to get us to line up in one accord, but its really difficult because we humans are well...human! lol! EVERYONE who is trying to run for President is Corrupt! All of them! They wouldn't be that high up if they were not! And the possible one or two who aren't, are so duped that tptb will run circles around them in office! The dems, the reps, all crooked mama. All of them! It is almost unfathomable to me that anyone can possibly believe otherwise! Look the repubs lay the groundwork in darkness then the dems bring it to fruitition! Obummer couldn't do any of the stuff he's done if tge framework hadnt been set up by previous repubs, like Nixon, Reagen, BUSHES etc. Have you been paying attention. Agenda 21 etc, presidential mandates and orders and on and on. These guys are all one thing sister! Spiritual wickedness in a high place! As for wwjd? Well he didn't fight anyone ever! Physically at least. And his nation of Israel was being trod over by some pretty awful dudes! The Romans! Remember how the Jews refused to believe he was the Messiah precisely because he wouldnt and didnt fight the Romans! He told us to turn the other cheek and admonished Peter for cutting off the ear of the Roman Soldier! And then he healed it! Do you remember how the illustrious Soviet Union got sucked into a war with Afganistan? And how the cost of that war brought down tgat nation? Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!

ally said...

cont...our nation is being systematically destroyed from all angles and its been going on for quite a while! There waz a time it might have gone down a little differently but now...i think it pretty much done. And yes it just destroys me to think all I believed in except Jesus is over! But I have come to the conckusion tbats the way its supposed ti be. And oh yeah, we are about to get a spanking from on high for letting it proceed this way. See God's word will not return unto him void. Reap what you sow. Our nation has been doing evil horrible nadty things overseas for quite awhile. People hate us, really hate us and for good reason too! We have smacked several hornets nests and expect not to get stung! What kind of logic is that? God's hand is no longer on this nation. And who's fsult is that? OURS! Because the ONLY time Jesus got angry, really angry was when the moneychangers were ripping off God! And he did get physical then, flipping over tables etc. We let them remove God from school, from our courts from our soceity and now we wonder why things are so messed up! Pleeeease! Sorry for ranting but WAKE UP SLEEPING PEOPLE! Oh please please please wake up! And even if this goes against popular opinion here folks...you better get ready spiritually and emotionally, phyzically if you can, because the writing is on the wall! Daniel saw it in his day and I see it today! While the party rages on, the enemy is already on the doorstep. Read some Corrie Tenboom. The Lord walks with us through our trials in order to be glorified. He doesn't kerp us from trials. And while we may escape the trib, I'm not so sure we will escape the downfall of this nation my friends. I've spent many agonizing hours sobbing my heart out over this. HE WANTS NO IDOLS IN OUR LIVES. And if Stephen's mood indicator is right...imagine how crazy its gonna go when the free nation everyone looks up to crashes in flames. Talk about worldwide depression! And i dont mean money markets! Maranatha! We csn walk through all of this by just keeping our eyes on Jesus!

ally said...

Well, i guess my first hslf has dissapeared into outerspace somwher again :( So i will try to be brief and summarize: Republicans=Democrats. all crooked all evil at high levels. the spiritual darkness in high places! Jesus never got physical and fought. He admonished Peter for cutting off the roman soldier's ear and then healed it. He told us to turn the other cheek and pray for them. The Jews refused to believe he was the Messiah mainly because he didnt fight the Romans who ruled Israel. Stephen's quote of Matt. was right on. Live by the sword, die by it.

ally said...

And by the way, I'm not a pacifist either. I rather have a biker sttitude about it. If you are gonna do it, do it! Dont play games.

Mrs.C said...

Hi Brother WV, :)
I agree 100 percent, the current government is not to be trusted what so ever! Whew, if there ever was a prototype of the ac, obummer is it! Amazing to witness all of this, the overt blindness of him being elected, the turning loose of his evil minions across this great nation, all with the goal of destroying it! But there is more than that, it is an attempt to destroy the very foundations of its people! The enemy knows his time is short!
It is no matter how all these little men run around the world with their plots and plans against nations, it means absolutely nothing before the Lord! In fact, it is humorous to me, because they are only doing exactly what God wants them to do for HIS PLAN, not theirs. Personally, I believe its very exciting, all these government over-throws and the like! It is the very Hand of God at work! He is very clearly setting the stage, the final details so as to speak, just before He allows everything to turn loose! He is allowing the purest of evil to rise to the surface, so that He can wipe them out, and He clearly says its coming! God had Ezekiel devote 8 Chapters to the destruction of these evil nations surrounding Israel, and He even recognizes this same recycled evil in them going back to the Garden! His Severe Judgment is coming, to them, and He is simply completing the prep work for it. Ezekiel 25-Jordan,Gaza Ezekiel 26-28 Lebanon (whew they really get it) Ezekiel 29-32 Egypt. As said, Gods Word says there is great Judgment coming to those nations surrounding Israel, and I believe His Judgments on them will coincide with the Isaiah 17 war.

We all knew this was coming, because Gods Word said it would happen, it has to happen, as painful as it is! And yet, we sit in amazement that we are actually witnessing it happen. The Truth is that the U.S. is not in Bible Prophecy, and as a Babe In Christ, many years ago, I used to think “oh, that must be because we are all Raptured, that’s what will bring down the U.S.”, but someone like obummer, has greatly changed that perspective. It is two fold, it is exactly how Gods Plan is to be, but it is also for us to be refined by Him before we meet our Beloved Bride Groom. More and more we seek Him, rely on Him. It is for us to fight the good fight, finish the race, honoring HIM in all facets of our lives. We are to fulfill His Purpose for us as He has given each of us in our lives and that means (as I quoted another Sister) taking a “Godly stand in an un Godly world”.

Yes Brother WV, folks have a tendency of not seeing Jesus past the Cross! I know, I didn’t. He is both Lamb and Lion now!

Revelation 19:15
15.And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:21
21.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

God Bless!

DrWho said...

And believe it or not, I am not a liberal. Liberals are the ones behind the Responsibility to Protect agenda. Liberals are killing babies inside and outside of the womb. Liberals are weakening our military through social engineering and then sending them into harms way.

Also, if there was really a "war on terror" would we order the military to allow Islamic female cadets to wear hijabs???

Robin said...

Thank you, Mrs.C . . .that's fascinating. I've always read that verse to mean they were at "peace".

But looks like we're on the same page with regards to Isaiah 17. I too, believe we'll see Syria beat to shreds before Gog/Magog

Mrs.C said...

Hi Bro/Sis Dr.Who, :)
Forgive me, but you are now changing from your original post, without responding to my response to you. The reasons you are now stating, are not the same points you had previously made which were clearly liberal talking points. Forgive me, but your previous statements were made as general statements about war etc., not the demoralization of our current troops.
It is absolutely disgusting what this WH occupier and his many minions are doing to our heroic military! Absolutely demoralizing for them Im sure! But no worries, Im sure after he brings them all home, he will give them jobs working on highways or something awful like that! Personally Im grateful they are coming home, and not in the middle of what is about to happen over in the ME. As Gods Word tells us the U.S., nor anyone else for that matter, will help Israel in the Isaiah 17 war, it concerned me as to what did that mean for our troops over there. But we have a weak, coward as the WH occupier, he is being true to form and brining everyone home.
As everything with Barry, is about Barry, the question could be asked, what does he know that’s about to happen, that we don’t? Did ask Israel to wait with Iran, so as he could bring the troops home? The timing certainly is interesting to say the least! I had once heard an ex CIA Agent (if they ever are ex-CIA agents) say that Iran was the target of the U.S. all along. That is why we surrounded them in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran has been factually killing our soldiers for years now in both of the afore mentioned nations. In addition, they are a huge sponsor of terrorism around the world. Evil to the core they are!
Just today, who is running to Israel for high level discussions about Iran? The U.S. is. After Barry treated Israel lower that low, when they came here, not even meeting with the military counterparts, throwing Bibi into a van to come to the WH and then making him wait to see Barry, God has turned it around and now the U.S. is having to go to them. Don’t you know that is going to be an interesting conversation. When a top U.S. Military guy goes to Israel, and meets with the very top there, something is up for sure.

Will the U.S. go to war with Iran? Maybe, maybe not, but most important is what Gods Word tells us about Iran. Gods Word tells us that something will happen to Iran to bring them down. God does not say that Iran is involved even in the Isaiah 17 war, but most importantly, in the quickly following Ezekiel 38 war/invasion, Iran is reduced to a tagalong of Gogs, like all the others. Whether it be an Israeli strike, covert ops, or a giant earthquake, something is going to bring Iran down. We also know from Gods Word, that Israel will not be nuked. As Bibi says, Israel is so tiny, it would only take one nuke to destroy them, and again, Gods Word says that will not happen.

God Bless

Mrs.C said...

Hi Bro/Sis Anon, 
Lets see together what His Word says  Paul is speaking to the Thessalonians to correct any misunderstandings, especially about the Second Coming of Christ.
Paul is speaking to them of the Tribulation period, specifically the second half of the Trib that Jesus referred to as the Great Tribulation. The first half of the Trib will be somewhat “peaceful” and “safe”, Israel will rebuild their Temple without malice from anyone etc. However at the mid Trib, when the, abomination of desolation” occurs, “sudden destruction” will come upon the Jewish People at that time when they reject ac and attempt to flee. Jesus tells us of this time, in Matthew 24:15-21. Paul tells us “they shall not escape”, but Jesus tells us in more detail warning them they had better “flee” and don’t even stop to get your “clothes”. Run, and run fast so as to speak. Those that “shall not escape” are as Jesus tells us .Mothers with babies, will be unable to flee quickly, as would “winter” and the “Sabbath day”(they cant go out) will hinder their escape. There will indeed be Jewish Believers that will indeed escape, and the ac will chase them without success of killing them. God will protect these Jewish Believers for the remaining 3 ½ years of the Great Trib.



1 Thessalonians 5:1-3
1.But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2.For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3.For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Matthew 24:15-21
15.When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16.Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17.Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18.Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19.And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20.But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21.For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

God Bless!

thriftommama said...

I sure wish what i had posted stayed up here. :( Look-this is ridiculous! I CANT BELIEVE HOW BLIND MOST AWESOME GOD FEARING AMERICAN CHRISTIANS ARE! Why do you guys keep letting Satan take a musing tgought and turn it into some kind of non-holy war? It happened with e.i a few weeks back. You think the pressure is bad now. Just wait brethern! I speak the truth so listen up! Look, you guys are getting all tangled up and mired in deep doo doo here! Step back and wake up! ALL the higher level politicians are in on this great deceit! Both parties. You got that yet? ALL of what is happening, has happened and is going to happen is pretty darn preplanned! Look at Albert Pikes's 3 world wars plan that Satan personally told him about and you will see whats up! (yes satan is a liar, thief and destroyer! And we are not supposed to be IGNORANT of his ways!) But for some reason a lot of people just aren't waking up! Look satan told his crew what is planned just like Jesus told us! Yes, I cried in agony of hearbreak for this nation and all the brave men and women and fsmilies that suffered so through the giving of flesh and blood so we would be free! But you better wake up! Those days are either over or almost over (ndaa) We as Christians did not do our jobs! We LET the evil one kick Jesus out of school work court and home and wonder why this happened!We LET congress and the president run roughshod over this country! And dont you DARE blame it on the democrats! (or republicans)(or liberals either) They are all one! If and when you can wrap your head around that concept and ONLY when you can, will you be able to SEE what is going on! the Bible makes it clear as glass! SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES! Now as for Jesus and war. Yep, there will be some butt kicking and name taking (later) but not now. When he lived here as a human he did not fight! He said to turn the other cheek and even admonished Peter for cutting off the roman soldiers ear. The Jews wouldnt accept him as the Messiah because he wouldnt help them overthrow the Romans. I love our nation, but I love Jesus more, make no mistake! It took a long time before I realized my patriotism was bordering on idolalatry. Sorry if I am being forceful or sound patronizing! I have explained this soooo many times before and I am very frustrated with peoples unwillingness to even consider all this ad a possibility. Love you. He iz coming. really he is!

Scott said...

FWIW - I have read a number of commentaries from various scholars who believe that based on the original greek that the phrase we commonly discuss "peace and safety" is actually more accurately "living securely" - and if that's the case, then one could argue that Israel is as "secure" as they have been since 1948, given their military capabilities, etc.

I don't agree or disagree as this particular scripture isn't my area of expertise, but I have seen several such commentaries suggesting this subtle difference.

Scott said...

I'm referencing Ezekiel 38:11 above, not the 1 Thess 5 reference.

Robin said...

This is has been a very enlightening discussion.

Anyone notice the large seismic activity today? Total of 10 quakes 5.0 or stronger . . .the latest, 5.3 in Christchurch a little while ago.

Anonymous said...

stephen u r a witch! u r a curs in this place, u r posesed with many demons & u shuld be driven away from christ followers.did u get that steven, only a blind fool cant c u r a WITCH using the occult to mangle and blind here, u have blinded them to u r evil.

Robin said...

Anonymous, are you aware you can click or tap on a post and it disappears from view? Short of that, you can scroll right past? Very rarelt do I find myself in agreement with his views on economic issues and there barometric tie to the tribulation . . .but he IS, nevertheless, our brother in Christ, just as you are.

Know what else? Stephen has the courage to sign his name after every post and I respect that.

Mrs.C said...

Anon,
Leave Stephen alone. Your posts have been very disturbing to say the least. Constantly attacking a Brother you have absolutely no idea about, none, nada! It is you Brother/Sister that are emanating darkness! I rebuke your evil spoken words in Jesus Mighty name! So we are “blinded to his “evil”? What on Earth are you talking about! Witches? Is this Salem?
Are you the same poster who posted about “invisible witches in trees” the other day?
Stephen is a Brother, would you say this to him face to face, say in Church? Or has the deceptive anonymity of the Internet given encouragement to your nameless outbursts. I will lift you up in Prayer, that His Holy Spirit will give you clarity. BTW, that is ALWAYS Christ with an upper case "C"! Please at least honor Him in that way. Scott does have a delete key...especially for drive by posts...

Mrs.C said...

Hi Sister Robin, :)
Yes indeed, its a great discussion of His Word :) Isnt it interesting that lately a wee bit of darkness always seems to pop up or should I say, pop in, when we are fellowshipping in His Word...hmmmm wonder where that comes from...

God Bless You!

Godschild777 said...

Thank you mrs.C for the warm welcome.

Mrs.C said...

Godschild777,:)
Are you Anon? My goodness, isnt this interesting what has come forward. You’re welcome :) I guess the question is, how many names do you use and is it truly a "welcome"? As you have posted under "anon" with the same kind of vile condemning comments against Stephen before, but then now begin to post under another name as if you are new. Or are you "Rosa" with the invisible witches in the trees? (Same theme thought there might be a connection there)

Interesting indeed...hmmm...deceptive games with Brothers and Sisters...not good...will increase Prayer for you!

God Bless!

godschild777 said...

no thats not i dear. I am new.God bless.

DrWho said...

Mrs. C- Okay, I will reply to your reply :-)

The Allies did not target Stalin for assassination because he WAS our ally. We did not care how many Russians he killed as long as he was on our side to help us kill Germans. We did not go to war with Germany to save the Jews. We got into the war officially after Pearl Harbor. The Japanese bombed us in retaliation for our oil embargo against their nation and our support for Chang Kai Shek. We provided not only aircraft but pilots through the Flying Tigers and bombed Tokyo prior to Pearl Harbor. We then got scared and locked up US citizens in internment camps and took their homes and businesses.

In Vietnam, we sacrificed over 50,000 US soldiers after we were lied to about the Gulf of Tonkin.

We invaded Iraq twice. Once over aggression against Kuwait and once over WMDs that did not exist.

We bombed Libya and handed it to Al Queda.

We gave Egypt to the Muslim Brotherhood.

We gave Serbia to the Muslims.

We are going to give Syria to Wahabis.

These actions are not Christ-like.

I love my country and there is great good here. We as individuals and churches sponsor more missionaries and spread God's word more than any other people. We have freedom of religion and help those in need.

Our elected leaders however kill a lot of people and it does not make us safer. Then again, is it Christ-like to kill civilians in order to protect our civilians?

IMHO

DrWho said...

Anonymous- Be nice. God knows who you are.

Diane said...

Yes, anon, please be nice.

"A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger." Proverbs 15:1

I think you must also be Rosa. Your writings are similar.

"Now we that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves." Romans 15:1

Diane

Anonymous said...

Mrs c is ur real name ???? to ur face to S face to any face I am tru 2 the bible and warn like we must. u r all guilt 2 put covers over evil & that’s wrong man u read the bible and get in order as I DO 2. im like you all I need 2 gard from bigots and nuts. i tell Steven wot he NEEDS TO KNOW!!! I THINK OF HIS SOUL BUT YOU LET THE EVIL WORD S GO AND NOT SHOW THEM UP. U TEL ME WOT U R DOING IN THE BIBLE is right????? S is right on with the sword c he does no right from wrong but he is a rebel and thats witchcraft.SO its not just S is wrong u r wrong 2 so REPENT. yes LORD JESUS CHRIST nos me and nos I do his will to show evil words but u don’t. ur blind to enemy work and its right of wot the devil & demons do in the world so get real and read ur bible thro 4 ur mixing light with dark and CHRIST with demonsevil. That’s wiked u r 2. REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!from ur whitewash. U can call me the FOOL for CHRISTS SAKE.

Anonymous said...

Doreen Irvine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AlTIE3xn2Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKbqVXo1bOg&feature=related

Mrs.C said...

Hi Bro/Sis Dr. Who, :)
Forgive me Bro/Sis, but based on your response, and other previous posts, it does appear that you were ever a “hawk” as you had stated. And its apparent no matter how old the wars, you are an anti-war person. That’s ok, it is your right, but please at least present the true facts of your disagreements. Stalin was only our “ally” by default. He was originally allied with Hitler and signed a pact with him until Hitler turned on Russia. The Allies never trusted Stalin, Gen Patton wanted to take on Russia in war right after Germany was defeated! Stalin created the “Iron Curtain”, began the “Cold War”. World dominance was the goal of Communist Russia, and Russia was the model for China, North Korea.

Germany – We were already indirectly involved in the war in Germany, before Pearl Harbor. See the Atlantic Charter, signed in August of 1941. In addition, The U.S. was escorting ships in the Atlantic to protect them (innocents) from the German U-Boats. The Atlantic Charter broke the isolationism that was so prevalent in the U.S. at the time. The attack on Pearl Harbor, brought us to war against Japan, and Japan was part of the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo axis that was created in July 1941. There fore, when we declared war against Japan, Germany and Italy (the other part of the Axis) declared war against the U.S. The U.S. did not declare war against Germany first. Again Germany’s goal was world dominance. Hitler was developing an atomic bomb, how many would have died if he succeeded, and would there still be a U.S.?

Japan – Japan had invaded Manchuria with the goal of taking over China. Japan was attacking China, and the U.S. would have none of it. Have you read the atrocities the Japanese did to the Chinese? The U.S. placed an oil and steel restrictions on Japan, and the Dutch broke their economic treaty with Japan. Japan in turn, attacked the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) to take their oil and rubber plants which they needed for their conquering war.The Allies tried to defend the islands but lost. The biggest threat to the Japanese to stop them from their goal of dominating Asia, was the U.S. Pacific fleet. That is why Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Vietnam – After the French were done fighting in Vietnam, the U.S. stepped in. It was a “Cold-War” era war. It was J.F. Kennedy that took this nation into Vietnam following Eisenhower’s lead. Kennedy had determined to make Vietnam the line in the sand against communism after meeting with Khrushchev. By the time Kennedy was killed, he had sent 16 thousand troops on the ground in Vietnam and there were already many U.S. casualties. Actually there were two Gulf of Tonkin incidents, and unless any of us were there, and have the technical expertise of what happened, it is highly debatable. What is not debatable, is the Johnson used this incident to escalate the war. So to say that the U.S. Military men and women were “lied” to, is an untruth Bros/Sis, as unless you were there, you have no certain knowledge of the event. BTW, it is a fact that the U.S. militarily was winning the Vietnam war. It was the interjection of the MSM’s first ever, constant coverage of that war, that turned the U.S. people against it. Eisenhower was correct in restricting the media in WW2. It’s a scary thought as to the idea of CNN covering the Normandy landing. Over 6000 brave Men died that day, in one day, and if the public would have viewed battles like that every day (good thing there were no TVs), as they did with Vietnam, we would have pulled out of Europe and not fought the war.

Mrs.C said...

As for the more current wars, again please refrain from make statements that are not accurate. There were indeed WMDs in Iraq, without question. As for the current WH occupiers actions, other than their treatment of Israel, they don’t bother me in the least, for Gods Hand is all over them. He is clearly using this current administration, to fulfill His Plan, and that is very, very close to being completed.
“Our elected leaders kill a lot of people and it doesn’t make us safer”? Are you referring to the past or the present? Forgive me, but your response did not address DEFENDING the innocent and our neighbors. Would you defend your neighbor as Jesus Commanded?

“Loving your enemy” and “Turning the other cheek” is a Command for individuals. It is not for governments, and those that find themselves or loved ones in dire situations with the threat of violence against them. Jesus Himself told his disciples to sell their cloak and buy a sword (Luke 22:36). Jesus later told Peter “put your sword away” so Christ’s sacrifice would go forward and the scriptures would be fulfilled (Mt. 26:54). But the very fact that Jesus told Peter and the other disciples to buy a sword shows that its use for personal protection is appropriate. “Love your enemies” does not mean allow your wife and family to be killed, and it does not prohibit all wars as the victims of these evil governments are “innocents” too. Should we not stop them? What about Police, they use violence, should we rid society of Police? Police protect from within our country, and the military protects us from enemies outside our country.

It is an error to say that God never supports a war, and Jesus is not a pacifist. In a fallen world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated, how many more millions of innocents would have been killed? If the Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would the African-American slaves have suffered?

When Jesus Returns in His Second Coming it will be extremely violent. Revelation 19:11-21 tells us that it is Jesus Himself that comes, to judge and “MAKE WAR”. It’s going to be bloody and very gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20). Will you then object, and tell Him that He those He is killing are“innocents”?

Your concern is for the “innocents”, which is for us to Pray for protection without question, on both sides that the casualties be limited. We are now living in the last days, where the “innocents” you speak of, women and children for example, are not so “innocent” In some other nations, they teach their children hatred from the day they are born, and have bombs strapped to them by the time they walk! This is nothing new, this is a horrendous lesson that they learned from the North Vietnamese. However, you ignore something very important, do you Pray for the Service Men and Women that fight defending this country!? They are the ones, that take both the physical and emotional irascible scares for us, and yes for you! They take an oath to protect and serve this nation, no matter the cost! Could any of us do the same thing? You see, when it comes down to actual battle, they are Brothers in a sense that we could never understand. They are beyond fighting for their nation, but are fighting for the lives of each other, at great, great cost…from Jesus Himself there is NO GREATER LOVE…

John 15:13
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

God Bless!

DrWho said...

Hello Mrs. C-

It is great to be living in a country that is still free enough for us to have this friendly debate.

Vietnam first- My source is none other than Robert Mcnamara stating that it did not happen.

Robert McNamara admits Gulf of Tonkin attack did not happen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaGVAipGp0

Nobody forced America to accept Stalin as an ally. The enemy of my enemy was my friend and this continues to be the basis of US foreign policy.

Lincoln did not fight the Civil War to free the slaves. He stated that he would have allowed slavery to continue to preserve the Union. His freeing of the slaves through the Emancipation Proclamation only granted rights and freedoms to blacks in Rebel held territory. The South was not allowed to leave because at the time, the majority of tax revenue came from tariffs and the South had control of all but two shipping ports. Lincoln fixed this too by giving us the income tax. He also arrested reporters who disagreed with his policies. Something I am sure we will see again.

Mrs.C said...

Hi Bro/Sis Dr. Who, :)
Yes indeed, it is a great Blessing to live in a nation to have “freedom of debate”, although I prefer “discussion”. And thank God All Mighty, for those who have paid the ultimate price for that freedom!

Yes indeed, the Gulf of Tonkin, as I said, was two events days apart. As Mr Mcnamara stated, there was much confusion as there is ALWAYS inevitably in war. Errors and mistakes happen all the time, but I will let an expert on radar explain that to you should he decide to. The point is Dr. Who, you had presented your comments that the men and women who served this great nation in Vietnam were “lied to”, however due to the Gulf of Tonkin incident which is not a true statement. The U.S. presences was already in full swing BEFORE the Gulf on Tonkin, and that was due to Eisenhower and Kennedy. Sixteen thousand troops, and loss of life had occurred by the time of Kennedy’s death. As stated before, Johnson took the Tonkin event and used it to escalate the war that was already in progress.

Forgive me, but I didn’t say America was forced to accept Stalin during the war. I had said he was our ally by default, please re-read what I had posted.

Understand and know Lincolns positions on slavery, my point was what if we had not fought that war? Would slavery be ok with you? Because it was Christians, fellow Brothers and Sisters of the time, that began the revolt against slavery. It was a war that had to be fought. Respectfully, there was MUCH, much more involved with the Souths Secession than any kind of taxes Dr.Who. As for the “arrest”, again Dr.Who, it was for much more than “disagreeing” as you state. Treason committed during war, by aiding and abetting the enemy, is not a good thing, it is a treacherous thing! Eisenhower knew this, with his restrictions of the media during war. Too bad that they haven’t arrested MORE of the MSM for their traitorous acts since then! And what does that have to do with the primary subject we were discussing?
Forgive me, but again, you didn’t answer the question? Would you fight for your neighbors as ? Or just yourself?

God Bless :)

DrWho said...

Mrs. C- Yes, if my neighbor Dave was attacked by my neighbor Jeff, I would defend Dave. I would not however make up lies about Jeff and convince my neighbors to kill him. The latter is a more accurate description of our foreign policy.

A free press is more necessary during times of war than during times of peace. Although I am not a fan of the MSM, I do not trust the government to fix them.

Caver said...

Dr Who, greetings. May I join in the conversation....

Every human government sometimes lies or misleads or hides "stuff" from its citizens. Sometimes justified, sometimes not.

My specific point is the Gulf of Tonkin...I find your post more than misleading, but perhaps you are arguing something you don't know the details on. I didn't either....and from that episode I became a part of the conflict in the jungles.

I wish I remembered the precise details, numbers, speeds, and other technical facts of the episode.....but I don't.

Radar correctly picked up the enemy PT boats...they were there.

1. The US Navy ships went into escape and evasion maneuvers, full steam ahead, which is over 28 knots.

2. Sonar is unreliable over about 18 knots

3. The PT boats followed, that is fact.

4. The US ship counted a number of torpedo launched at it and reported same.

5. After General Quarters were announced several flashes of light were seen from the PT boats and sounds on the US ships that were interpreted as possible small arms fire.

6. From this it was interpreted that the US Navy had been attacked....torpedoes and small arms. This was believed.

7. Over 2 years later...that's 2 YEARS...research showed that the records for the reported torpedo firings matched precisely and exactly the number of times the ship changed directions in its escape and evasion maneuvers. In short, at that speed each emergency turn resulted in sonar picking up a false torpedo launch signal.

So, bottom line, we were NOT attacked....but that is a far cry from the meaning you appear to associate with the action.

So, when MacNamara (sp) admitted the attack did not occur he was telling the truth. But...that was determined over 2 years later.

So, you kind of backed into being correct on the bottom line truth, but for entirely the wrong reason.

I remember you bad mouthing the US assinating a US citizen that went over to the other side and was killed in a foreigh nation as he was applying the trade of war on the US. I took issue with your POV then, and do now.

Several other of your arguments I find flawed the same basic way....well, at least to me. Your POV appears basically to blame the US and find the fault with us on an across the board basis. Sometimes I agree with you, but for different reasons. Your research appears shallow and a general leftist / pacifist attitude appears prevalent. I could be wrong, and if so, please forgive me.

Sometimes war is necessary. It depends on the other side. The Civil War, WWI, WWII, and Korea were entirely justified IMHO. Our fault, we waited too long.

Sometimes in situations like this, you take your allies where you find them. Perfect...no, but the best of all bad options. Then deal with that difference after the greater enemy is defeated.

Civilian causalities....certainly are. Fair...Nope, not by a long shot but its part of war. Regrettable, always. But, never, ever, in the history of the world until the nation of Israel has a country gone to such great lengths to prevent those causalities and then to help and assist the ones that do happen.

DrWho said...

Hi Caver- Of course, the more the merrier.

The Gulf of Tonkin was an example of why the Founding Fathers wanted it to be hard to go to war. If our ships are placed in the Gulf of Tonkin or Straits of Hormuz, accidents will happen and then we get to go to war.

Yes, I am glad my earlier posts were memorable. I do not think US citizens should be assassinated by the US government. I also disagree with the NDAA which allows the government to indefinitely detain US citizens.

We have been conditioned to believe that we must give the government more and more power. The US is not at war with radical Islam. We are actively toppling secular dictators and replacing them with pro-Caliphate forces. This is not healthy for us or Israel.

I have high respect for Israel. They have shown restraint and force. They are focused on preservation and have every right to.

Do you remember the babies dumped from Kuwati incubators? Another lie to get the American people to support a war. Did you know we export as much oil from Alaska as we import from Saudi Arabia? If we are attacked, then attack back. We need to stop trying to change the world.

Caver said...

Dr Who...Yes, to many of your accusations with respect to war and this country.

As for the assassination, lets not forget who he was working for and fighting for and against. I fully support that one. The crime of Treason and turning against one's own country has a history and a court of law isn't always available or possible. If that's the only reasonable option, you kill them and move on before they kill you and your family.

With that being said, I also fully acknowledge much "shadow" manipulations and ulterior motives. I am greatly troubled that in the late 1860s Albert Pike specified the need for what we now know as WWI, WWII and a third....precisely the nations we see lining up in the ME and in the Bible.

Still, from the perspective of individual countries and peoples, there is sometimes the need to shed blood. Reasons may be as they appear or there may be shadow manipulations behind the scenes....as we know are occurring today. In fact I would say every conflict since Korea has some very suspicious motivations and ulterior reasons. Still...sometimes it matters not if you have a legitimate national defense or humanitarian need or have been maneuvered into the spot...sometimes you have to fight.

But my basic argument is that

1. War is sometimes entirely justified and needed. Always has been....evil must be held back, even when your hands aren't Lilly white themselves.

2. Your earlier arguments were often more talking points than researched and factual. At least to my humble understanding.

3. Radical Islam wants to kill us....you, me, our families. They have since their inception. Individual acts by us and others to fight back may or may not be pure as driven snow themselves but is necessary and good and right.

4. Many governments have risen up that sought to dominate and enslave or institute their own whatever. It is good and right to fight those that are wrong...taking away our freedoms, right to worship, enslave us.

This is going to be my last post on the subject...my POV is know and it seems many of the rebuttals Mrs C provided to earlier blanket statements has not been addressed in the least.

Happy New Year! Stay safe